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Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by shagie on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:14PM (#33975073)
> 2) Developers will be able to offer refunds more easily (something that continues to be ridiculously hard with the App Store).

I would counter that its really easy compared to most other systems.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084

I had an occasion where my phone was loaned to my (young at that time) nephew on a car trip and since it was my phone (and only my phone) I had rather permissive purchase checks on it. He bought a bunch of in app purchase stuff for Talking Tom (owned by a Chinese company). I filled out the form, and got a refund. I believe that it was much easier than trying to get a refund from the developer.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by Me1000 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:22PM (#33975176)
Here's an example a friend of mine ran into recently:

They sold their company and shut down their service for which they charged monthly/yearly subscriptions. They had a decent relationship with Apple, so they emailed their contact and notified them that they'd like to issue refunds to all their users. Apple said that users had to do it themselves. That wouldn't be so bad, but there's (as I understand it) some restrictions on Apple offering refunds for subscriptions, for example if you're 25 days into a 30 day subscription period, Apple won't allow users to request a refund.

This caused users to get angry at my friend and their company.

If they had been using any other payment service other than the App Store, they could have just automatically issued refunds to all their users.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by shagie on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:35PM (#33975350)
The difference that we're seeing here is a "user can request a refund easily" vs "developer can refund something to a user."

Apple balances on the assumption of the stability of their developers offering subscriptions and an easier experience for a user requesting a refund.

The difficulty that the developer is having in this case is that Apple isn't exposing the payment information to the developer. If they can say "this user gets a refund" that is leaking some information about the users to developers.

(...)

Additionally, it appears that there were some new methods added to the in-app library for developers to be able to create a refund request on behalf of a user.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/storekit/transacti...

> Call this function from account settings or a help menu to enable customers to request a refund for an in-app purchase within your app. When you call this function, the system displays a refund sheet with the customer’s purchase details and list of reason codes for the customer to choose from.

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by saurik on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:51PM (#33975576)
Sure, but that obviously isn't what people were talking about with respect to developers giving refunds. I provided that feature to developers in Cydia and gave refunds directly to users and it was still appreciated by all to have that feature.

Regardless, to address your (off-topic) addition: do you actually request refunds from Apple often enough to be willing to pay 10% more for the privilege? You'd have to be asking for refunds for 1 out of every 10 products you buy for that to make sense...

Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by jacobr1 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:44PM (#33975481)
Apple could still act as an indirect facilitator - send apple the money and they refund it on your behalf. I'm sure there are many reasons why this is complicated, but I don't see any fundamental reasons this couldn't be done if Apple want to enable it.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by bdcravens on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:43PM (#33975455)
You're talking about 2 different things. The platform providing refunds doesn't obviate the need for the developer to have the same option.
Re:Apple to allow outside app stores in overhaul spurred by ... by shagie on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @03:49PM (#33975553)
A developer can issue a refund request on behalf of a user - its just that they can't do the refund themselves because the developer doesn't hold tokens for processing the payment. Doing so gets into issues of PCI and user privacy.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/storekit/transacti...