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Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by JacobSeated on Friday December 09, 2022 @12:38PM (#33924113)
Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too.

It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by dangrossman on Friday December 09, 2022 @12:57PM (#33924365)
I doubt that works economically.

The money advertisers can pay Facebook is, essentially, a percentage of all consumer spending. A percentage of the money you pay for toilet paper, dish soap, groceries, car insurance, credit cards, etc is funding the advertising budgets of those companies.

The money consumers can pay Facebook is, at most, some portion of their discretionary spending budget. What's left over after buying all that stuff, and paying the rest of their bills (housing, fuel, taxes, etc).

The first number is a much bigger number than the second.

If Facebook is no longer able to capture Charmin's ad spend because they can no longer provide adequate targeting, then Facebook will no longer get that money. The Charmin customers don't have it to send to Facebook directly, they gave it to Charmin to buy their toilet paper.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by sagarm on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:01PM (#33926930)
Charmin is likely doing brand advertising, however, and Facebook's ad network will likely still have greater demographic-targeted reach than other options.

If nobody is allowed to build a demographic profile for cross-site cookies, the biggest negative impact will be to small sites. Previously their ad inventory could be relatively high value because it could be assigned targeted ads at scale, without site-specific work or having to trust the site itself. Now the site will at best self-report their user demographics. (1) they probably have poor visibility into their customer demo without something like Google Analytics to guide them and (2) it's difficult for a third party to verify any demographic composition they claim.

Ad targeting on these will likely be content based. I suspect this inventory mostly won't be eligible for lucrative display advertising anymore, if it was before.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by rndmio on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:01PM (#33924417)
Out of interest where do you see growth coming from for Facebook? How many more people are there to get as users? Their advertising business is being hurt and likely to face further issues. The meta verse is, as yet, going nowhere.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by alkonaut on Friday December 09, 2022 @02:30PM (#33925519)
Facebook would need to charge too much. This is the problem. They invented a way of extracting so many dollars per user-months in ads that they can’t have users pay for it instead because it’s too expensive.

And the reason they do it so well is because they are so invasive to peoples integrity that if people find out - they’d also quit the service in droves, and it’s also so invasive that regulators are objecting.

I don’t see Facebook returning to growth any time soon.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by occamrazor on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:26PM (#33924727)
It’s not that simple, because of adverse selection. I wrote another comment about it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924689
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by mxkopy on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:22PM (#33924669)
Imagine writing something like this unironically and not immediately wanting to die of embarrassment

Excuse me, 'growth story'? For Facebook ??

Time proves the shareholders vs. rest of society stereotype to be true, I guess

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by QuietWatchtower on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:56PM (#33925099)
Right? I can't tell if this guy is being ironic or not lol
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by Fargren on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:19PM (#33924625)
I'm not totally sure that's allowed under GDPR. I know you can't say "consent to data collection or you can't use the website" [1]. So I doubt "consent to data collection OR PAY or you can't use the website" is acceptable.

[1] unless the data is needed for the website to work

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by starbugs on Friday December 09, 2022 @03:20PM (#33926008)
Seems to be quite common practice for some news outlets here in Germany. I remember that I read a court decision stating that this would for some reason be acceptable. Not sure if it really is though.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday December 10, 2022 @05:32AM (#33931490)
Common practice is no indicator for it being legal. Most of the consent dialogs were illegal, it just isn't being enforced.

Note how the Google and Instagram consent dialogs changed in the past year or so. I'm sure that wasn't voluntary...

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by KarlKemp on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:47PM (#33927450)
That’s advertising, not targeted advertising, isn’t it?
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday December 10, 2022 @05:31AM (#33931487)
Some of them give you the choice between "targeted advertising with tracking, free" and "completely ad-free, paid".

Others give you the choice between targeted advertising and paying for non-targeted advertising, or three choices (free with targeted ads, paid with non-targeted ads, paid a lot with no ads).

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday December 10, 2022 @05:44AM (#33931550)
This is not 100% clear. The Austrian DPA has declared it legal, which is why many are doing it: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6cdf29db-aa57...

This is currently being contested by NOYB.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by sunderw on Friday December 09, 2022 @02:59PM (#33925806)
I've seen this at least twice on the french websites jeuxvideo.com and marmiton.org. I may have seen more but do not remember.

It think it's a gray area right now though.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by rootusrootus on Friday December 09, 2022 @02:34PM (#33925563)
What a world we live in where government has decreed that business must provide services for free. No wonder people vote for that.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday December 10, 2022 @05:36AM (#33931508)
They don't have to provide the service. They can charge money for the service (but then they probably will go bankrupt because few people are willing to pay for it, because the service isn't that great).

They can show ads on the service. They can even ask people to opt in to targeted advertising.

What they can't do is harvest people's personal data to monetize the service.

In other words: You can give away potatoes for free. You can sell potatoes for money. You can sell potatoes for onions. You can, in many countries, even sell potatoes for sexual favors, although there will be some rules to protect against exploitation. What you cannot do, in most countries, is sell potatoes for kidneys, and you most definitely can't sell potatoes while surreptitiously removing customer's kidneys and hoping they don't notice or care enough because they have two and you're only taking one.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by dmitriid on Friday December 09, 2022 @04:41PM (#33926736)
> What a world we live in where government has decreed that business must provide services for free.

What the hell are you talking about? You can keep providing ads. If it's a paid service, you can keep providing a paid service. No one is asking you to do stuff for free.

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by JacobSeated on Sunday December 11, 2022 @07:43AM (#33942673)
The GDPR has failed to reach a balanced approach to the issues from the start. They failed to account for missing and much needed technology (uniform, automatic and consistent consent mechanisms), and failed considering anonymization technology used to deliver targeted ads.

The most profound mistake is their lack of proper risk assessment, as well as proof and transparent documentation of real actual significant harm done to users, to warrant such discriminating privacy laws. In the process they are hurting everyone, including small personal blogs, news media sites, and large social media sites.

The data, if hacked, or spied on by employees, is still a privacy risk regardless if its used for targeting ads or not. The data still sits on the servers, because the applications depend on it to function properly. The number of ecommerce websites alone that do not properly handle personal data is scary; basically anyone with database access can also access all the personal data on customers. If a given CMS has a known exploit, then the data is in great risk of being leaked and abused. E.g. Never host a site on Wordpress without proper security in place.

Nevertheless. We should always maintain that the user is ultimately responsible. If they do not like Facebook, they just ought NOT to create a Facebook account. Dislike being watched when walking around in physical shops? Stay away from them. However, the actual risk to the individual user, from ads, is so miniscule that we practically have no substantive examples of harm done. The worst shit is falsehoods promoted via ads, but that is purely an policy/moderation problem. Fake pages and accounts are a much bigger problem than falsehoods promoted via ads.

Having a paid subscription model would be a valid opt-out of advertising (ads are often dishonest, so I would like to see that). The problem is, the data still sits on servers, and if leaked, this will, unlike targeted ads, pose an actual real risk of harm.

I am not against the GDPR or the EU, but it has been profoundly flawed from the beginning, costing website owners a lot of time and money trying to comply. I absolutely hate consent platforms, because they are just another third party dependency IMO...

Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by epolanski on Friday December 09, 2022 @03:33PM (#33926154)
It's delusional to think people are gonna pay for services like IG, FB and Whatsapp which are already slowly dying even for free.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by p0pcult on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:50PM (#33925048)
Or, let's just kill FB.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by revskill on Friday December 09, 2022 @12:58PM (#33924384)
The free market is never wrong ? The stock price is always true value.
Re:Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe by tomrod on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:06PM (#33924463)
Efficient Market Hypothesis isn't all that great. Arbitrage can and does exist over extended periods of time.