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Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by no_wizard on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:22PM (#33915208)
They can send all the letters they want. Larry & Sergey have controlling interest[0] in Alphabet and can very much decide to ignore any of this if they want. In effect, TCI can't compel them to do anything they don't want to do.

I think merging Waze and Google Maps teams is actually smart, whether it cuts cost or not seems like they have similar goals as a product.

That said, doesn't mean Alphabet won't head some investors letters or something, so its always possible

[0]: https://capital.com/alphabet-shareholder-who-owns-most-googl

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by user3939382 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:54PM (#33916013)
I can’t comment on Google specifically but it is possible to have de jure controlling interest, while another party has de facto control because they can threaten to unload a huge position and tank the price.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by usea on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:15PM (#33916135)
Even in that scenario, the people making that threat are not actually in control. The ones with control are choosing to do this, rather than lose money.

These people are not forced to make more money at the expense of others. It's their choice.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by FPGAhacker on Thursday December 08, 2022 @09:03PM (#33916469)
What a useless distinction.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by insaneirish on Friday December 09, 2022 @12:07AM (#33917692)
It's not useless.

If the threat is that unloading a position will cause a dip in shareholder value of $X, but those actually in control believe their own thesis and operating model is worth more than $X, then they can choose to weather the storm, believing their way will negate the loss of $X.

If they really don't have an answer to the activist investor's thesis, then yea, they'll roll over.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by cool_dude85 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @09:33PM (#33916674)
Seems pretty useful to me, as it accurately depicts who holds decisionmaking power and what the actual threat is.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by ggm on Friday December 09, 2022 @12:17AM (#33917776)
But it completely ignores the commercial reality: 10% of your holdings making a move is sometimes enough to swing a board decision. Look at AGL in Australia and the recent play by Grok ventures. Nothing like 50% + 1. They moved the mountain.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by s1artibartfast on Friday December 09, 2022 @01:27AM (#33918230)
You are conflating control with influence. Control is the ability to make a unilateral decision, consequences be damned. Influence is the ability to impose costs and benefits on a decision maker so that they do what you want
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by ggm on Friday December 09, 2022 @02:14AM (#33918535)
No disagree but also.. this is nitpicking. Everyone reading the flow knows what was meant here: change was effected by a significant minority of shareholders exerting influence. You would not be wrong saying colloquially "they were made to" or "had to" even though legally no force exists. Well clearly to a nitpicker you would be wrong, but half the room is now rolling their eyes.

Don't be that kid.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by s1artibartfast on Friday December 09, 2022 @09:53AM (#33921811)
I don't think it is nitpicking. There are 40+ posts debating who has control and talking past eachother because they are using different definitions.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by sebzim4500 on Friday December 09, 2022 @09:09AM (#33921347)
Yes 10% of your company being sold at once would be alarming. Thing is TCI does not have anything like that much. They have ~0.5% of the equity and less than 0.5% of the votes.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by UncleMeat on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:41PM (#33916323)
Thank the price? With 0.5%? I'd be stunned if Googlers themselves didn't sell 6B in GOOG annually.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by vermilingua on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:44PM (#33916346)
Employees liquidating their ESOP is a very different market signal than a single institutional investor deciding they no longer want to hold any GOOG.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @09:03PM (#33916472)
They're still one relatively teeny investor in a company with a gargantuan market cap. Nobody really cares that much whether they hold or sell.

More likely, though I haven't read their letter in depth, is that their beliefs actually aren't that far out there - I mean, you probably aren't going to get pushback from anyone if you say "Google is bloated and needs to trim and focus". So they write a letter and make some noise, and then when Google makes some rather unsurprising changes they can say something like "look how influential and prescient we are", and that has value in the investment world.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by phpisthebest on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:04PM (#33916072)
>>I think merging Waze and Google Maps teams is actually smart,

Only if the Waze teams takes over for the Maps team..

Google Maps is TERRIBLE app, I hate it. and if the Maps team is going to start messing with Waze it will be ruined

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by km3r on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:09PM (#33916092)
As someone who only really uses google maps, what makes Waze so much better? (Specifically non car driving directions)
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by lkbm on Thursday December 08, 2022 @09:31PM (#33916659)
I recently created an account on Waze and it was quite a challenge. Kept giving me errors, and giving me impossible instructions. It was one of the jankiest/most broken experience I've had in an Android app.

Then in my last trip I tried using it to find gas stations on my drive and it was a huge pain in the ass. It was once again impressive in how bad it was.

Waze has some nice features, but it's janky af. Google Maps is considerably better in almost every way. Waze is useful to see speed traps and has more information about gas prices. (Much less helpful in getting you TO those gas stations, though.)

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by layman51 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:51PM (#33916381)
I do not think it is much better. I like Waze when I want to aggressively avoid traffic when driving. But Waze doesn't let me save offline maps. Also, I think Google Maps might have better voice navigation when it comes to specific lanes. It depends on the roads and map updates, but Waze might tell you to turn left, but Google Maps might tell you to "use the second from the right lane to turn left".
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by froggit on Thursday December 08, 2022 @09:00PM (#33916443)
I'll usually load up waze in the car and have it sitting where I can see it, but I never ask for directions because I know where I'm going. It'll warn me about bad shit on the road ahead of me, saved my ass a couple times by telling me to decelerate from ramming speed to normal speed.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by phpisthebest on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:13PM (#33916119)
>>Specifically non car driving directions

I would never use anything other than driving directions

I only walk to and from my car, and i do not own a bike, and if a business does not have parking less than 300ft from the door I am going to a different business

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by ghaff on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:25PM (#33916196)
Google generally is poor for hiking trails etc. Use Open Street Maps in that case. (Which isn't perfect but is at least better given there's no money for Google in better hiking trail maps.)
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by hkxer on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:24PM (#33916194)
Not dissing on you by any means, it’s just crazy to me how different this is than London. My train station in Surrey is a good 1.3km walk from my home, but all of my neighbors do the exact same thing.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by GauntletWizard on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:53PM (#33916405)
Having lived both ways: I was healthier when I walked, but I'm happier not doing so.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by dangus on Thursday December 08, 2022 @10:03PM (#33916891)
Waze: 4 out of 5 scary Uber drivers who drive aggressively, abruptly turn on to obscure side streets at the first sight of another vehicle, and blare the navigation voice as loud as possible on their smartphone speakers choose Waze.

Seriously, Google Maps being a all-caps TERRIBLE app? Come on. It's basically the gold standard.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by hackerbrother on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:41PM (#33915426)
I think they've been merging the codebases already anyways. Maps has added Waze's selling points already (speed trap warnings, etc).
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by uoaei on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:58PM (#33915578)
The re-routing in Waze always seems a little better than the offers in GMaps.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by mattzito on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:46PM (#33915966)
In my experience, Waze is more about the perception of progress - it optimizes for reducing the amount of time you are _waiting_, sometimes at the expense of _progress_.

In NYC, it often makes absurd suggestions - I once got in an uber on 33rd and 2nd trying to get to penn station on 31st and 7th avenue. Far and away the most straightforward path is to head west on 31st street all the way to 7th avenue, but there's always a backup between 5th ave and 7th avenue - but that's still the fastest route. Waze directed the uber to head north on 3rd avenue to 39th street, head west, make a left on 5th avenue, then make a right on 35th, then make a left on 7th. It took twice as long, but we were always moving - it just wasn't taking into account how long it can take to make a turn on nyc streets.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by dietr1ch on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:33PM (#33915880)
I'm guessing it's a preference setting at this point, Waze was acquired long ago and they should have the same information to pick a route.

Waze seems more willing to save time even if the path gets more complicated. Maps on the other hand even exposes a "greener" path that minimizes fuel when it won't cost too much time.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by giggyhack on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:00PM (#33915596)
Related question here, do you know if they have done anything public with that data besides showing you a speed trap in real time? Like are there any summary maps of where speed traps typically occur?
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by bmitc on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:14PM (#33915710)
I just hope they keep Waze as it is and don’t make it worse.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by killingtime74 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:40PM (#33915938)
It was acquired over 9 years ago....
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by aceazzameen on Thursday December 08, 2022 @08:45PM (#33916354)
Yeah but different teams, different goals. With this news, I give it a year or two before Waze is shut down and only a few Waze features are added to Maps. Nothing good will come from this.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by bmitc on Thursday December 08, 2022 @10:55PM (#33917237)
Yes, I know. And when that happened, there was a sharp drop in quality in Google Maps as they tried to add Waze features into Google Maps. I can imagine the same drop in quality in Waze if Google starts doing Google things to it.
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by ramesh31 on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:35PM (#33915345)
> In effect, TCI can't compel them to do anything they don't want to do.

Yes, they can. It’s called fiduciary responsibility, and shareholders sue for it all the time.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by gumby on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:54PM (#33915534)
Their fiduciary responsibility is not to defraud the shareholders. Milton Friedman’s idea that management’s only constituency is the shareholders is not actually a matter of law.

Management can just say “in our judgement X is the right thing to do, not Y”. Google is too big for TCI to try to gain control over.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by baryphonic on Thursday December 08, 2022 @07:18PM (#33915759)
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by joshuamorton on Thursday December 08, 2022 @10:11PM (#33916943)
The wikipedia page pretty accurately summarizes why Dodge v. Ford isn't really a useful citation.

Firstly, if an executive says "we believe this is in the interest of long-term shareholder value", the courts basically just defer to their judgement. You can't get the courts to run a company for you.

And second, the precedent has been softened since 1916 (or wasn't even true at the time), and for example some corporations like B-corps explicitly reject it, without any legal consequences.

Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by UncleMeat on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:53PM (#33915529)
"We took a 50 billion dollars and lit it on fire" is meaningfully different from "we structured our teams in a way that you think is inefficient."
Re:Google combines Maps and Waze teams in restructuring move by brewdad on Thursday December 08, 2022 @06:36PM (#33915368)
In the US you can sue anyone for anything. It doesn't mean you'll win a damn cent though.