News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by pjc50 on Thursday December 01, 2022 @05:29AM (#33814516)
There's an "EU Chips Act" happening as well: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/09/a-revitalized-semicon...

It makes sense. ASML are in the Netherlands, as are NXP. ST are in France. Germany has quite a bit of semiconductor production for the automotive industry.

It'll be slow and expensive to get there though. There's not many places in the EU where you could simply drop a Shenzen in, demolishing historic buildings and natural environment along the way.

Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by AdamN on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:09AM (#33814829)
They're not going to build a fab in downtown Heidelberg :-)

There are plenty of industrial parks available near transportation, water, and electricity in Europe to build this out. This also aligns with how the modern chip ecosystem works where the fab components are coming from Europe, the advanced chips are coming from Taiwan, other chips are coming from across SEA, and final assembly is happening in China. What I suspect will happen is that Europe will start printing advanced chips and most of them will be shipped to China for integration. If a conflict/dispute breaks out, switching to European assemblers will be expensive but totally doable with a short-term investment (2-3 years??)

Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by Animatronio on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:11AM (#33814846)
Yes, those pesky medieval castles all over the place. And narrow cobbled streets, only two riders abreast. Those are the major problems of Europe, not bureaucracy and indecision at the highest level.
Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by jacooper on Thursday December 01, 2022 @09:08AM (#33816369)
Both can and are part of the problem.
Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by steve1977 on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:33AM (#33814975)
Also, there are laws to protect the environment in Europe. We’ve conveniently outsourced the dirty work to China etc.
Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by Rinzler89 on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:45AM (#33815041)
How did we outsource it? We still have semiconductor manufacturing in EU. It's just way behind the cutting edge, and not because it's cleaner than the one in US or Taiwan.

Semiconductor manufacturing is dirty business. I live in the EU next to one such fab and whenever local environmental concerns are raised about the fab, since nasty chemicals are sometimes found in the river the plant uses, the official response is always "the exact process is confidential, we cannot allow external inspectors inside, but we can pinky swear we conform to all regulations via self audits" and the government rolls with that as the unofficial response is "stop bothering us about the environment or we relocate production to Asia and you're left with a bunch of unemployed engineers and tax hole in your city coffers".

Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by Rinzler89 on Thursday December 01, 2022 @06:39AM (#33815013)
> ST are in France.

Yeah, about that:

"STMicroelectronics N.V. commonly referred as ST or STMicro is a Dutch multinational corporation and technology company of French-Italian origin headquartered in Plan-les-Ouates near Geneva, Switzerland"

The lengths French and Italian corporations will go to to avoid taxes and red tape in their home countries lol.

Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by ekianjo on Thursday December 01, 2022 @07:08AM (#33815207)
Why would you want to pay more taxes and become uncompetitive if you can avoid it?
Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by Rinzler89 on Thursday December 01, 2022 @07:12AM (#33815243)
I get that many individuals and companies see taxes as wasted money or theft, but taxes pay to fund the education of the workforce that will work for said corporations and fund the infrastructure used by said corporations to build and transport their goods, including stuff like courts which companies can use do protect their IP or military force projection to protect their assets and investments abroad.

Without the skilled workforce or infrastructure the company will for sure not be competitive.

What most big companies are now doing to get insanely wealthy is have most governments foot the bill for the infrastructure, protection, and education of their workforce, while all the profits from the fruit of their labor go directly to shareholders and the governments don't see a dime in taxes so stuff like education, healthcare and infrastructure is falling apart while corporate profits have never been higher.

Re:TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia by ekianjo on Friday December 02, 2022 @11:12AM (#33832426)
> see taxes as wasted money or theft,

You are mixing chicken and eggs here. We had education and skilled people before huge governments stealing massive amounts of taxes from people existed. The disposable income from the population gave rise to bureaucrats who love to tax everything under and pretend that they world cannot run without them. That's pure twisted logic.