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Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Monday November 28, 2022 @02:50PM (#33778614)
> We could rewild huge parts of the Earth

Probably not without radically changing how we grow plants for human consumption, assuming we still eat plants and don't move to an all-meat diet.

Looking over the data for the area I farm, according to government figures, 36% of the cropland is used for animal food. Most farmers here grow a rotation of soybeans, corn, edible beans, and wheat. The edible beans and wheat are intended for direct human consumption. I couldn't find an exact breakdown for soybean use, but on my farm ~60% of the soybeans are intended for direct human consumption and ~40% for animal consumption. I imagine that is not atypical. Corn is primarily intended for animal consumption.

A little back of the napkin math and you get somewhere around 35% of the output after a four year rotation on my farm being intended for animal consumption, which is effectively what the real world data also shows.

The rotation is important to maintaining soil health and keeping disease at bay. I don't see that going away, save further technical advancement, so you'd probably just see the corn shift to something like biofuels if animals weren't eating it to maintain the rotation to grow the human food.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by TedDoesntTalk on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:14PM (#33778901)
> you get somewhere around 35%

That still has to be in the millions or billions of acres globally. No?

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:27PM (#33779074)
Billions, it would appear. But that doesn't necessarily mean that billions of acres can be taken out of service.

While local conditions don't perfectly extrapolate to the world, remember that 100% of my acres grow human food when observed over the span of more than one year. The 35% animal food production seen in a single year is the outcome of the crop rotation.

Certainly, I'd be far more profitable if I could reliably grow beans for human consumption over and over and over, but Mother Nature is a harsh mistress.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by ender341341 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:24PM (#33779029)
I think the rest of what that post is saying is that 35% is an important part of soil maintenance (ie avoiding another dust bowl). Though I do think with testing we should still be able to drastically reduce the amount of land needed, though likely not exactly 1:1 with previous animal consumption.
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by saxonww on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:21PM (#33778980)
What do you use for fertilizer today, and where does it come from? Is there a scaling concern there, as well?
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by ben_w on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:05PM (#33779620)
There's a "running out" concern for phosphate.

Technically it can be extracted from the same seawater it's running off into, but IIRC that hasn't been demonstrated in a cheap enough way yet.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by collaborative on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:23PM (#33779023)
Lab grown meat combined with bacteria tank flours - looking forward to it
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by jcampbell1 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:32PM (#33779158)
Soybeans are crushed, meaning the oil and protein are separated. The major crushers are ADM, Bunge, and Cargill. The protein is then toasted into flakes for better animal digestion, and sold to milling operations of meat producers (e.g Smithfield foods). The oil is sold to consumers as soybean oil in most of the world, and marketed as vegetable oil in the US. Hunt-Wesson is the biggest soybean oil buyer in the US.

Your split of 60/40 human/animal split for soybeans is accurate on a calorie basis. I just though I would add some color as to why it is the case… the beans are split.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:40PM (#33779275)
> Soybeans are crushed ... The oil is sold to consumers as soybean oil in most of the world, and marketed as vegetable oil in the US.

That's the 40% I referred to. Crushers, while less profitable, are a better fit for my poorer ground. I lumped this in as animal food to keep things simple, but you're right that there is also human uses. You could write books about the subject if you want to capture all the details.

The 60% are food grade (IP) soybeans, which generally end up as tofu, soy milk, and other foods where the soybean seeds are eaten whole (more common in Asian countries).

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by jcampbell1 on Monday November 28, 2022 @03:53PM (#33779452)
Ah interesting. I’ve never known anyone who grows IP beans because the farmers I know are in NC which is a meat state.

Are IP beans kept moist or sold dry?

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:18PM (#33779839)
Dry, and strictly so. At least for the market I sell in they must be between 11% and 14.5% moisture off the combine (must be naturally dried).
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:15PM (#33779791)
If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... and 77% of it is used for livestock: meat and dairy

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use

More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh.

https://ourworldindata.org/soy

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by wtetzner on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:36PM (#33780089)
We could also just eat grassfed beef instead of feeding animals soy.
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by awillen on Monday November 28, 2022 @04:55PM (#33780407)
That would require even more land since a given amount of land can grow fewer calories of grass than soy.
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @12:24AM (#33784002)
> Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ...

While true, we are talking about cropland, not agriculture land (e.g. pastures). Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @03:12AM (#33784910)
Yes, it is ... simply deforest more land for our animals ... we could fatten ourselves so much more ;)

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @09:00AM (#33787636)
Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland.
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @02:40PM (#33792208)
Not suitable, but used for plant-based food.

Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land (37 mil. km2), which supplies 18% of global calories and 37% of proteins.

Those 23% (11 mil. km2) of agriculture land, crop land, is capable of producing 82% of global calories and 63% of proteins.

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g...

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @04:56PM (#33793927)
> Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land

Right, and since we're only talking about cropland, that 77% has no relevance to the discussion. That it keeps coming up is rather bizarre. Indeed, if you keep pounding a square peg into a round hold hard enough it may eventually go in, but one sure does look silly for doing it in the first place.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @05:14PM (#33794137)
That 77% CONTAINS crop land.

https://www.renewmethod.com/post/what-is-arable-land

"Arable land is classified as land that can be plowed for the purpose of growing crops."

Please, look at the graph one more time.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by randomdata on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @11:48AM (#33803429)
Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific. Your weird tangent has no relevance.
Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @01:17PM (#33805039)
> Probably not without radically changing how we grow plants for human consumption ...

Wrong.

> ~60% of the soybeans are intended for direct human consumption and ~40% for animal consumption. I imagine that is not atypical

Wrong.

> around 35% of the output ... for animal consumption, which is effectively what the real world data also shows ...

Wrong.

> Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland.

Wrong.

> Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland.

Wrong.

> Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific

Wrong (in the context of) https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g...

> Your weird tangent ...

It's called logic. I give up.

Re:Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says by myshpa on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @03:17AM (#33798260)
You're the only one in this discussion talking about crop land. To focuse solely on crop land and ignore pastures is misleading.

> Eloff: ... won't need to raise animals or food for animals ... we could rewild huge parts of the Earth

> randomdata: probably not ... 36% of the cropland is used for animal food ...

Even if we kept all the arable land for human consumption (to compensate for missing meat, assuming the lab-grown meat will take some time to scale) we'd have 3.3 billion hectares of pastures to rewild/reforest. Or we could reforest those 35% of arable land we use for growing animal feed and instead use a fraction of pastures for nuts/fruit production.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-pasture

Forests cover 40 mil. km2, and animal agriculture takes 37 mil. km2. Majority of plant-based foods is produced on 11 mil. km2. By switching to plant-based we could increase forest cover from 40 mil. km2 to 70+ mil. km2.

"We might even address the very real disaster scenarios presently threatening the world with questions like these: "What if you could make a simple and compassionate change in your life that would increase available farmland, increase available clean water, reduce rainforest destruction, reduce greenhouse gas production, reduce the threat from antibiotic-resistant bacteria, decrease land and waterway pollution, prevent creation of ocean dead zones, end your participation in the deaths of sentient individuals and increase overall human health by switching to a plant-based diet? Would you do it?” This is the reality we actually live in, and this is the choice each one of us faces."

https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-would-eat-meat-on-a...

OFF-TOPIC: we should reforest some deserts/barren areas as well