Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by anigbrowl on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @06:54PM (#33713218)

And if they tax it, people will complain about cost-shifting, saying the consumer should pay, and accuse the taxes for driving inflation etc. I am in favor of making polluters account for negative externalities, it's been a long-theme of my comments here), but I've noticed that people are adept at inventing new bases of objection.

Perhaps you could suggest a place where the pollution taxation approach has worked and the enforcement has teeth, which you would be happy to see implemented here even though it might come with short-term costs.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @07:15PM (#33713375)

Cost incentives work. It's why people buy cars that get more mpg. Why wouldn't they prefer to buy a car that engenders a lower pollution tax?

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by rgmerk on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @08:39PM (#33714012)

If by “people” you mean “Americans”, they buy F-150s to go to the grocery store, and they vote out governments that threaten their ability to do so.

Taxing pollution, particularly consumer-facing taxes, has a long history of political failure, whereas subsidising clean technology has a long history of political and technical success.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by waldothedog on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @11:39PM (#33715269)

*F-250

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by rjbwork on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:08AM (#33715800)

Saw an F-450 the other day... granted, it was at the gun range, but I was there in my compact hatchback and it had not a spec of dust on it.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by maeil on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:50AM (#33716002)

It doesn't simply "have a long history of political failure"; it has a history of political failure in certain areas of the United States. In much of the rest of the developed world, e.g. nearly all of Western-Europe, it has a history of success and taxing cars based on fuel consumption and emissions has indeed caused buyers to gravitate towards more fuel-efficient cars.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @02:01AM (#33716066)

Do they tax the rate of emissions, or the amount emitted? It's important to tax the latter.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by maeil on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:11AM (#33716463)

Both. The former directly through taxes on the cars themselves and the latter indirectly through fuel taxes, which while imperfect works well as a proxy.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:28PM (#33722807)

Fuel taxes work well for CO2 emissions, but not for other emissions, where the design of the ICE can reduce them dramatically.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by rgmerk on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:39AM (#33716625)

Fair point, but the EU ETS took many, many years to have any serious effect as I understand it.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:56AM (#33716039)

If we can have a sales tax, we can have pollution taxes.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by rgmerk on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:41AM (#33716639)

In the United States, you can't, at least at a federal level, nor across most of the red states.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by anigbrowl on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:04PM (#33722476)

I was hoping for examples of incentives for this specific problem you considered successful and would express support for if implemented here.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by refurb on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @07:16PM (#33713388)

And if they tax it, people will complain about cost-shifting, saying the consumer should pay

The consumer should pay, because that will reduce demand.

It’s funny to see a government encourage a carbon tax to reduce fossil fuel use (high gas prices drive consumers to look for alternatives), then turn around this year and either cut gas tax or send out checks to consumers to offset higher gas prices.

Not sure any politician has the Will to follow through with it.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by legulere on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:35AM (#33715932)

Taxes have a bigger effect on the poor, while pollution is caused overwhelmingly by the rich.

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Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:59AM (#33716050)

> pollution is caused overwhelmingly by the rich

Then they'll be the ones overwhelmingly paying the pollution taxes.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by chillwaves on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @05:23AM (#33717363)

Because the poor have no resources to tax -- it makes no sense to tax them.

And it doesn't mean the rich will be paying a fair share, just that they will be paying more than the poor.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Decades of Air Pollution Undermine the Immune System by WalterBright on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:29PM (#33722816)

If the taxes on pollution are flat, they are by definition paying their fair share.

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