> Like if we're not there entering the "numbers" 4 6 15 16 24 32 every 108 minutes, the entire business is going to crumbl

Never I have encountered an engineer that thought that.

One need look no further than the O'reilly book on Microservices. First chapter I believe. We call ourselves "engineers" but the truth is, real engineers have real consequences when their designs fail. (buildings fall, bridges fall, etc). It's not a unique take. Now I'm not going to argue about engineering vs developing vs programming as that opens a massive can of worms.

What a weird criteria to define engineering - consequences!

It's not my designation to give. An "engineer" actually needs rigorous certifications, backed by a certain education.

If I do have an engineering degree in informatics, then when developing code I'm doing engineering - right?

"rigorous certifications" - just a degree... not so rigorous

>> Like if we're not there entering the "numbers" 4 6 15 16 24 32 every 108 minutes, the entire business is going to crumbl

> Never I have encountered an engineer that thought that.

there are people all up and down this page saying effectively just that. well i guess i'm assuming most of these people are engineers in the software sense of the word.

If you think the people you work with don't have a sincere desire to accomplish things you are a terrible manager.

Nowhere do I assert that people do not have the desire to accomplish things. Perhaps you're misreading my statement about "believing the building will fall down without us" incorrectly?

It sure sounds like very little respect for the people you work with that you so trivialize their goals.

Nothing could be further from the truth! Did you read my above comment from the beginning??

Yes. Your team members care about what they do, and think it's important. You don't think it's important and you view them as replaceable. Your intent is quite clear.

1. You're wrong. You have no idea the value I place on both my direct reports and other engineers at my current and previous companies.

2. I should have looked at your comment history before my first response. I really would like to assume good intent. I don't think I'm going to find it.

1. True, the only information I have about your perspective is what you've shared here. 2. I'm not sure to what you're referring?

When a manager comes on here and says "these workers think they're important but they're just shuffling numbers around" that deserves to be called out.

You got the numbers wrong and Elon fired the person who knows them...

typing on my phone.... perhaps if I had an Apple ][+

It's great to hear your concern with the actual people. That tends to get lost for some reason. And I agree we tend to attach too much importance to our roles, but the flip side bears a certain amount of truth, though on a timeline more like 108 days than 108 minutes.

I definitely walk a fine line of wanting people to know how much I value them and how valuable they are to the business as a whole. But, the harsh truth is, every single one of us is replaceable. I've just seen that play out too many times in my career. People with all kinds of domain tribal knowledge walk out the door. Everyone holds their breath as if it'll be the end. And a month or so later, we're still afloat. (I still hate to see good people leave)