Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by ericbarrett on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:43PM
(#33649872)
The buyback event itself is not taxable. For dividends, the recipient must still pay taxes even if they are reinvested (as is common) and this cash flow and tax burden is unwelcome for larger investors.
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Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by ghaff on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:48PM
(#33649932)
No. But the whole point of a buyback is that it will presumably cause stock appreciation and that appreciation is taxable, albeit at a lower rate and not until the stock is sold.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by qaq on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:39PM
(#33650408)
Only if you sell and are not using a structure that will shield you from taxes until an actual withdrawal is made. You can also take out a loan using the stock as collateral to avoid being taxed.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by eastAligned on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:57PM
(#33650026)
In large or complex arrangements the share might never be sold, instead being used as leverage or as part of more complex tax avoidance strategies. Far better than a dividend.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by HDThoreaun on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:32AM
(#33651106)
Or just held until death at which point no capital gains taxes are owed
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:54PM
(#33650528)
In the US, dividends from stocks held more than a certain amount of time are taxed as capital gains (qualified dividends):
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by bufferoverflow on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:13AM
(#33651020)
Appreciation on its own is not a taxable event. Only if you sell after said appreciation.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by FooBarWidget on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:58AM
(#33652101)
That depends on the tax jurisdiction and circumstances.
In the Netherlands, appreciation is immediately taxable for individuals, but not for corporations.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by gdy on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:16AM
(#33652238)
And what about depreciation?
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by benj111 on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:48AM
(#33652506)
How does that work in practice?
I presume you don't send a cheque off for €1.36 at the end of the day, (or receive a cheque back after 8 months)
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by Flashtoo on Friday November 18, 2022 @05:11AM
(#33652681)
You pay an annual % tax on the value of your investments less debt as of January 1st. This means you still pay taxes if your assets lose value, too. It's a wealth tax that pretends to be a capital gains tax.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by benj111 on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:53AM
(#33653374)
Ok. I'd quibble about it being a capital gains tax at all, but anyway.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by roel_v on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:25AM
(#33653608)
It doesn't pretend to be a capital gains tax at all. It's a tax on income from assets, which is in practice more or less a 'wealth tax' which is also why it's called the Dutch word for 'wealth tax' in the first place.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by Flashtoo on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:16AM
(#33655891)
It is a tax on an assumed return on assets, determined as a set percentage of wealth. "Vermogensrendementsheffing" means a "tax on return on wealth", not on the wealth itself. In name it is not a wealth tax, but in reality it is, since the assumed return that is taxed has no relation to the true return. This relates to the recent decisions declaring this partially unlawful, see e.g. https://www.tilburguniversity.edu/magazine/supreme-court-net...
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by em500 on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:03AM
(#33653023)
You should probably amend this, since this is very misleading to people unfamiliar with the Dutch tax regime. As you are aware, in the Netherlands net wealth (not capital gains / appreciation) is taxable. (Even if you consider the appreciation consequently also taxable, it's certainly not immediate, as the wealth is only assessed once a year).
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by FooBarWidget on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:56AM
(#33653913)
With the upcoming vermogensaanwasbelasting they'll tax actual gains on stock appreciation.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law
by benj111 on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:44AM
(#33652472)
On the UK we have ISAs that are sheltered from capital gains tax. But not from dividend taxes. The same applies to pensions.
Of course this state of affairs relies on companies not all jumping to stock buybacks, or else the treasury will find some new way of getting their pound of flesh