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Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by phkahler on Thursday November 17, 2022 @09:32PM (#33649137)
My guess is they are spending R&D money on better/simpler/cheaper EUV light sources, so expanding production capacity of existing models isn't a great idea.

Specifically my guess (and I'm no expert) is a plasma wakefield accelerator feeding a free electron laser to get tunable wavelength EUV light far cheaper and simpler than what they've got now. Tons of work to do to get there, but that's always been the case in thier business. Also, if they don't do it someone else might and then they'd be dead.

There are other R&D areas to be handled too. One might ask why not spend more on the R&D, but they are probably at some kind of practical limit there too.

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by usehand on Friday November 18, 2022 @12:54AM (#33650928)
> Specifically my guess (and I'm no expert) is a plasma wakefield accelerator feeding a free electron laser to get tunable wavelength EUV light far cheaper and simpler than what they've got now

Don't you think they'll also be using a retro encabulator, with the modial interaction of magneto-reluctance and capacitive directance being used to generate the EUV light?

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by throwaway773748 on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:26AM (#33651075)
I honestly can not tell if this is a serious question or a joke throwing around physics techno babble... Maybe this is how business people feel when we try to explain why some data somewhere is out of sync because of system problems.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by usehand on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:37AM (#33651139)
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by exikyut on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:08AM (#33651356)
I've just realized I really need to see this video re-shot next to a Shiny-Looking Thing at an ASML facility, preferably one with glowy lights emanating out of it somewhere.

(I've also just realized at least 10 companies have probably re-shot this internally with their own equipment. Argh.)

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by femto on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:21AM (#33651854)
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by beebeepka on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:56AM (#33651283)
Almost disappointed you didn't mention a flux capacitor but I guess it would have been too obvious
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by catoc on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:08AM (#33651353)
I was going to mention 'magneto-reluctance' but you covered that as well!

Wish I could upvote tenfold to further increase your customer focus on operator excellence.

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by prox on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:30AM (#33651490)
Yes, but only if they can prevent side fumbling, using state of the art hydrocoptic marzul vanes.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by usehand on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:38AM (#33651538)
I don't think that would work... It would probably lead to sinusoidal depleneration.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by jamiek88 on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:43AM (#33651582)
No we have half spin Allen dampeners for that.
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by sambapa on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:02AM (#33653014)
Please stop making me feel like I'm on Reddit
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by Animats on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:19AM (#33651414)
Is anybody close to making that work? The idea was proposed around 2014, but it doesn't seem that anyone has built it.[1]

You can use a big accelerator as a EUV light source. The SLAC beamline was once used to test the concept. Medium sized (160m circumference) synchrotrons have been suggested.[2] One appears to be under construction in China.

A plasma wakefield accelerator is a proposed way to shrink a powerful accelerator down to a more manageable size. Maybe. There's a project underway to use about a third of the 2-mile long SLAC beamline in this mode.

ASML made zapping a droplet of molten tin with lasers work as an EUV source. That's a nightmare. This approach may or may not be better. It involves zapping a high-pressure gas with lasers.

All the known ways to do this are insanely expensive and look more like physics experiments than production equipment.

A clean light source, where you put electricity in and get EUV out, would be easier to work with. There was talk of "table top synchrotrons" a few years back. One startup built one, although it was more like garage-sized.

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/high-power-laser-sci...

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35228673/

[3] https://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2020-10-12-slac-starts-n...

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by sllabres on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:41AM (#33652448)
Cant answer the question and my knowledge is only from 'one interested' but from how long (~20 years) it took to build the current EUV source and how complicated the alternatives look this is for sure no easy feat.

Can recommend [1] as the title say about the light source. Very interesting even for a non professional (and [2] as on high level overview of the machine and [3] as longer documentation inside ASML).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ge2RcvDlgw "The Extreme Engineering of ASML’s EUV Light Source"

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gMdGrVteI "The Extreme Physics Pushing Moore’s Law to the Next Level"

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQu_TMgHO98 "ASML's Secret: An exclusive view from inside the global semiconductor giant"

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by benj111 on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:38AM (#33652427)
>plasma wakefield accelerator

Is this named after the town, a person, or just 'wake' and 'field'?

Please be the town. If Wakefield can get in on the plasma accelerator sexyness, there's hope for all boring northern towns.

Dewsbury fusion here we come.

Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by quakeguy on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:47AM (#33652497)
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by benj111 on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:03AM (#33653442)
Wait 2 seconds while I edit that...
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by throwaway4good on Friday November 18, 2022 @05:16AM (#33652711)
Which competitor is pushing ASML to spend more on R&D?
Re:ASML looking to finally get ahead of Moore’s Law by phkahler on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:24AM (#33656014)
China.