That same logic applies to women then, no?

> That same logic applies to women then, no?

How ?

By not having sex (where a guy cums inside them) if they don't want a baby.

By your logic, this solves all the problems, and we only need abortions in case of rape or medical issues with a wanted child.

But we both know that people will still have sex, create unwanted babies (well, still fetuses), and both people involved should have a right to get out of unwanted responsibilities.

> By not having sex (where a guy cums inside them) if they don't want a baby.

Do we want more sex ? Yes

Do we want less babies ? Yes

Both are doable

Women don’t need the guy to cum inside for pleasure - that’s the only thing that leads to babies.

Guys have total control here:

- pull out

- wear a condom (or two)

Ejaculation is what, 5-10 seconds of pleasure - you are going to create a baby for that ?

Seems the juice is not worth the squeeze here

Edit: formatting

If women let guys cum inside them without a condom, they share the same responsibility as the guy.

Pulling out doesn't work in many cases, and two condoms are dangerous (i have no idea why you are spreading the two-condom idea, it increases the chances of ripping).

So yeah, if women don't want kids, don't let guys cum inside them (rape excluded) so by your logic, they don't need abortions (except for rape and medical reasons), right?

Yep, that's true for women too.

But then they can get a day after (plan B) pill.

Or a few different kinds of abortion.

Or give the kid up for adoption after it's born.

We give zero ways-out to men.

> Yep, that's true for women too.

How ?

> We give zero ways-out to men.

Pull out

> Don't spread your legs if you don't want a baby (abstinence). Don't have sex without a condom. Switch to oral, when the guy is close to finishing. Just do oral to not risk even that. Only have sex with people and at time you want to have a baby with/at.

This is like listening to an anti-abortionist.

But after people fail to do this, we give women an option to get out of a few decades of responsibility and financial burden, and men should have that right too.

Weird that this is framed adversarially (men vs women) when it doesn’t have to

In procreation men are involved, but women are committed

Do your part - don’t leave it to chance

Full male control: - Pull-out

- Condom

- Double-condom

Be a man, take full ownership of your own financial future

> Weird that this is framed adversarially (men vs women) when it doesn’t have to

If women decide to either take a planB or or get pregnant and give birth to a baby, why should a man cary the financial consequences of that decision?

> In procreation men are involved, but women are committed

How? Women can get a pill or abort, men are commited to pay for 20+ years of something they didn't want.

> Do your part - don’t leave it to chance

So, would you tell women this? "You don't need abortions, just do you part, don't leave it to chance! Pull out, condoms, and double condoms!"? Also, double condoms are outright dangerous, so is pulling out.

> Be a man, take full ownership of your own financial future

Yes, this is the idea... you didn't want a kid, a mistake happened, you need a way out too. With modern medicine and some quick action, having a baby or not has become a fully womans choice.

And there are cases, where you don't even need to have sex to be forced to pay child support:

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/11/woman-who-impregnated-se...

Even statuatory rape victims:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statuto...

> Yes, this is the idea... you didn't want a kid, a mistake happened, you need a way out too.

That’s my point - you can spend your life cursing your fate OR control your actions before it happens

Don’t leave it up to your partner, to the state laws, or chance

Should be taught in schools honestly - guys are in control of the sperm, no one forces them

Women only get pregnant when the guy finishes inside - 5 seconds of pleasure, not worth the 18+ years

So, by your logic, we can forbid non-medical and non-rape abortions for women, becase if they just don't let men cum inside them, they won't have any problems with unwanted kids?