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Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by ajsnigrutin on Friday November 11, 2022 @07:26AM (#33559941)
In my country (slovenia, former yugoslavia) owning homes destroyed the housing market in the long run...

The government owned a huge percentage of homes and rented them out to people who needed them, and moved them around too (if they got a kid, they got a larger apartment).

Then after the breakup, the government didn't want to deal with that, and sold all those apartments to renters living there for peanuts.. so 'everybody' got a home, and in the meantime stopped the communist-style buildings. .. then nimbyism, and yeah.. same as everywhere.

Now the "boomers" have apartments and young people can't buy them, because we don't build stuff anymore. When a boomer dies, their kids inherit and lease it out, because selling it is pointless due to ever rising prices (again, nobody builds anything anymore... nimbyism and all that)

If the government kept the apartments, when a boomer died, someone else would get to rent it at the government-non-profit-rate, but nope... whole country paid for building those apartments, some people got lucky to keep them, and the others could fuck off.

Also, building a private house back then was easier.. you could basically build, and then deal with all the pesky stuff, such as permits and legalization... now, you can't build a dog house without building/construction inspectors there. On one hand, we now have improper owner-build buildings in inapropriate places... on the other hand, atleast those people got a house, which is impossible now.

Also, building a house isn't even so expensive here... especially if you do a lot of stuff alone... but just the project/permit costs are higher than the bricks and concrete, and buying a piece of land where you're actually permitted to build is impossible... but we do have literal fields in the prime locations of our capital - https://goo.gl/maps/YeoJMMGN2QhtZDLs8 (just rotate the view around to see what's next to that)

tldr: in socialist time, everybody was renting from the government, in capitalist time, those apartments were sold for peanuts to renters (and the rest of the taxpayers, who didn't get apartments, got fucked)

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by medo-bear on Friday November 11, 2022 @07:51AM (#33560200)
boomers is a largely american concept. i doubt eastern european people of same generation can be called boomers: having lived in a completely different system.

anyway you seem to say that owning houses resulted in a problem of not owning houses? seems to me a more simple explanation would be that slovenia became a capitalist society, and for-profit housing doesnt quite accomodate as many people as the socialist one. this is a problem that is faced in every capitalist country atm

and you seem to be misrepresenting what happened in former yugoslavia. basically it was not the government that gave you housing, but the state-owned corporation you worked for. and it wasnt for-rent, but to pay off as you work. which is WHY so many people were able to buy it for peanuts when the system collapsed. also to say it was the government is to grossly overestimate the centrality of the socialist yugoslav government. they simply were not that powerful

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by ajsnigrutin on Friday November 11, 2022 @08:05AM (#33560343)
There was a (after war) baby boom here too. We didn't call them by that name, but there was a huge population rise in the late 40s and 50s.

In yugoslavia, you didn't own an apartment, but you rented it (from the government)... so almost noone had more than one apartment, noone had a too-large apartment, and if you got a job in trbovlje the government would get you an apartment in trbovlje (a city in the middle of nowehere). If you died, the apartment went back to the "pool", and someone else could get it. If you got a kid, you got a bigger apartment, and someone else got the smaller one.

But still, nobody owned those apartments, they just rented them.

The high ownership (the colored map from a post above) came only after they sold all those apartments to renters, and people started hoarding them, because they got them for very cheap and the prices could only go up. For "normal people" it would be better to have lower ownership and more renting from the government (if it was handled properly by the government.. a big if).. but then the colored would show different ownage percentages.

The biggest problem now is, that you're not allowed to build anymore, due to regulations and a lack of buildable land (in a legal sense... there is a lot of land, but the government doesn't allow building there, also in A LOT of areas, you can build a two apartment two story building max, instead of large apartment buildings that we need). "Back then", the government decided they needed more apartments, they took a piece of land and started building.. didn't matter if it was a pasture [0], a field, what the neighbors though (again, government buildings next door), they just built.

Now we have areas where we could build [1], but the government doesn't allow it... sometimes, if you're friendly with the mayor, you buy a farmland somewhere, and it suddenly becomes buildable, but this isn't true for "normal people". It seems a lot of people have invested interests to keep realestate prices high, and those people are in positions of power and can decide where we can or cannot build.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/zjfRsuw.png

[1] https://goo.gl/maps/ZVvHQmwzuX4VhLZ99 https://goo.gl/maps/dCoroKjHYs45dU8T8

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by medo-bear on Friday November 11, 2022 @08:20AM (#33560501)
> In yugoslavia, you didn't own an apartment, but you rented it (from the government)...

you paid it off to the corporation you worked for. it wasnt a lottery system. it was more like a generous homeloan

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02757206.2017.1...

>so almost noone had more than one apartment, noone had a too-large apartment

actually the apartments were reletively very good quality, and often buildings were made as part of a grander urban project

anyway im not saying the system was perfect. this shouldnt need to be said. but it did solve certain problems rather quickly

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by ajsnigrutin on Friday November 11, 2022 @08:38AM (#33560661)
You didn't pay it off, the government (who also owned the corporation) was the owner of it. You could build your own house and own it though, but not the "social" apartments.

The option to buy the apartments from the government came only after the fall of socialism in 1991 (jazbinskov zakon/law)

> actually the apartments were reletively very good quality, and often buildings were made as part of a grander urban project

yes, the apartments were well built, but the aging reinforced concrete will be problematic very soon.

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by medo-bear on Friday November 11, 2022 @08:52AM (#33560794)
> You could build your own house and own it though, but not the "social" apartments

you could not "own" it but you had all the rights one might want for their dwelling

Re:4% will quit if revealed co-workers earn more money by zo1 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @07:49AM (#33572541)
None of what you described is a consequence of capitalism and all a consequence or stupid government policies. Capitalism didn't force them to sell those properties for peanuts, nor did capitalism force onerous regulations to be put in place to prevent the market from building new supply after government messed up the situation.