News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @10:48AM (#33548174)
> Normally, children get infected by their second birthday. Now, “you’re going to end up having kids that are three, four years of age right now who have never seen RSV”.

In an ideal world, we'd vaccinate children against RSV. Acquiring immunity by suffering through an actual infection is always, always worse than acquiring it by a vaccine. About 100k children die from RSV each year!

Thankfully, there are vaccines in the pipeline [1], and I seriously hope that mRNA technology will increase both the development speed and the availability of vaccines in general.

[1] https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:10AM (#33548562)
> Acquiring immunity by suffering through an actual infection is always, always worse than acquiring it by a vaccine

say that to the whoever ends up coming down with narcolepsy, thrombocytopenia, acute peri/myo-carditis, shingles reactivation, etc.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:16AM (#33548665)
We've had a lot of shingles cases the last year because of immune system damage caused by Covid. What are you even talking about?
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by briandon on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:31AM (#33548954)
He's talking about adverse events following covid vaccination.

For example, see: "The Incidence of Myocarditis and Pericarditis in Post COVID-19 Unvaccinated Patients-A Large Population-Based Study"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/

Above-normal levels of myocarditis and pericarditis were associated with vaccination (Pfizer has been used in Israel where the study originates) but not with covid-19 infection.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:41AM (#33549141)
> Above-normal levels of myocarditis and pericarditis were associated with vaccination (Pfizer has been used in Israel where the study originates) but not with covid-19 infection.

Studies in the UK [1] and US [2] have shown that while, yes, there is an increased risk for myocarditis in vaccinated people, the risk of myocarditis in infected people is way higher.

[1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by chedca21 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:53AM (#33549369)
If you take an intramuscular injection without aspirating the needle to make sure it's not found a blood vessel in the deltoid, you risk cardiovascular damage pointlessly. The standard of practice is so absurd and flawed yet its going to take years longer before people like you become aware of how badly we've been mislead.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:28PM (#33550006)
This particular medical error scenario has been identified quickly with the covid vaccines and staff has been warned and trained.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by nradov on Thursday November 10, 2022 @02:43PM (#33551999)
One mouse study found that vaccine injection without aspiration did significantly increase the risk of adverse cardiac events. That research hasn't been reproduced in humans but this area deserves further investigation. At least early in the pandemic, US healthcare providers weren't routinely aspirating.

https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciab941

https://doi.org/10.1007/s43440-022-00361-4

http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/postgradmedj-2021-141119

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @03:25PM (#33552762)
> At least early in the pandemic, US healthcare providers weren't routinely aspirating.

... What? Here in Germany, that's like one of the basic things that people who deal with needles on anything alive learn.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @05:18PM (#33554336)
yea it doesn't happen much at all in the US, tons of normal ppl were hired to inject people and AFAIK that was never really part of instruction
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by nradov on Thursday November 10, 2022 @05:29PM (#33554492)
I don't know the injection practices in Germany. The WHO and US CDC no longer recommend aspiration prior to intramuscular injection, mainly over pain management concerns. (I'm not claiming this is a good idea, just pointing out the current injection protocol.)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/acip-recs/general-recs/admi...

In practice there is a wide variance between US healthcare providers depending on where they work and how they were trained. Some aspirate, some don't, some try but use the wrong technique.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:57AM (#33549448)
Those studies you reference conflict with each other. The second isn't peer-reviewed.

From the first one, it actually says for men younger than 40, myocarditis is actually higher in vaccinated, whereas for women it's similar to infection:

"In men younger than 40 years old, the number of excess myocarditis events per million people was higher after a second dose of mRNA-1273 than after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test (97 [95% CI, 91–99] versus 16 [95% CI, 12–18]). In women younger than 40 years, the number of excess events per million was similar after a second dose of mRNA-1273 and a positive test (7 [95% CI, 1–9] versus 8 [95% CI, 6–8])."

That supports my belief that vaccination should be voluntary for everyone but especially young people.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by morsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:11PM (#33549731)
Here's another one, published in Nature Medicine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

I haven't read it beyond the abstract.

We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:03PM (#33549596)
That supports my belief that vaccination should be voluntary for everyone

Putting strain on the already overwhelmed healthcare system is a voluntary choice? Especially antisocial: the person who made the voluntary choice to attend the hospital now chooses to infect the healthcare personnel. If that's not evil it's hard to say what would be.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:07PM (#33549656)
But clearly people are spreading coronavirus while vaccinated?
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:42PM (#33551137)
At least they stay away from hospital. One wishes that the country had proper sick leave and labour protections so that people can stay at home and cure their infection instead of spreading it at work.

We are seeing the fallout in the labour participation rate - it's partly due to people retiring instead of risking catching a potentially disabling disease and partly due to people unable to work because of Covid sequelae. One hopes that the government catches on.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by briandon on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:06PM (#33549637)
From the Methods section of the Patone paper (your first link): "A self-controlled case series study of people ages 13 years or older vaccinated for COVID-19 in England between December 1, 2020, and December 15, 2021 [...]"

In other words, all of the participants received covid vaccines.

The second paper you've linked studied unvaccinated persons (mRNA-vax recipients were specifically excluded) and its claim of higher rates of myocarditis for covid infection is based other researchers' values of myocarditis incidence post-vax and, as alluded to in the Discussion section, skewed by relatively low 2nd-shot uptake among the American participants (myocarditis risk associated with mRNA shots goes up with each successive dose).

The Israeli paper looks at myocarditis in persons before the vaccines became available (March 2020) and then afterwards. In Israel, 2nd shot and further shot uptake was much higher than in many other places.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by anon291 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:32PM (#33550996)
The good news is that everyone who was vaccinated also got COVID
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:41AM (#33549136)
Someone who discusses Covid vaccination complications must also discuss Covid complications. It's well established that Covid is a vascular disease, and the risk of stroke is significantly increased in the year after a Covid infection. Anecdotally, my mother-in-law's dementia got much worse after she caught Covid. That stuff is nothing that I want, and the Covid minimizers encourage the spread of a dangerous infectious disease.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by User23 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:11PM (#33549728)
Was your mother in law vaccinated? If so then how do we tell if that or the disease caused the damage. It could even be some kind of synergy between them, like ADE.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @09:10PM (#33556497)
My in-laws are on the conspiracy theory spectrum and not vaccinated. Sorry to bust a hole in your theory.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by briandon on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:13PM (#33549763)
The covid vaccinations in wide use now (e.g. the mRNA-based shots, adenovirus-vector shots, and the Novavax protein-based shots) either cause your own cells to create or directly insert modified versions of covid spike systems into a person's circulatory system. The biodistribution study conducted by Pfizer for the Japanese government (using LNPs with a non-mRNA payload) showed that the LNPs did not all remain at the injection site but rather spread far and wide throughout the body and accumulated in particular organs.

You have my sincere sympathy with regards to your mother-in-law's condition.

I have heard similar and worse anecdotes in which covid vaccines (especially boosters i.e. nth shots) have been the culprits and seen some severe adverse reactions in close acquaintances.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mrguyorama on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:04PM (#33550576)
Anecdotally, everyone I've heard say "the vaccine caused ____" are the same people who say "The fish was thiiiiiiiiiis big" and regularly blame things on made up reasons instead of being willing to look at themselves. My brother says he's "never been sicker than after getting that damn shot" which is a HILARIOUSLY BOLD FACED LIE! He was literally bedridden for several weeks this year with various illnesses and nothing after the shot, but sure enough, because he wants to believe the shot kills you, he blames made up illness on the shot.

It's no different than parents blaming their child's autism on the vaccines they got, it's not exactly a rigorous examination of the evidence. It's wishful and directed thinking.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by wen_1k_btc on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:23PM (#33549925)
That seems reasonable. Would you also agree to discuss COVID vaccine complications when discussing COVID infection complications?
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:53AM (#33549360)
I'm talking about any adverse event, like with the swine flu vaccine from the 2000s, for example, where people came down with narcolepsy. Then there's the swine flu vaccine from the 70s that caused GBS. It's just clear to me that saying "it's always better compared to infection" is just a lie. For the overwhelming majority, sure, but for enough people it's life-altering if not life-ending.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:27PM (#33549989)
> For the overwhelming majority, sure, but for enough people it's life-altering if not life-ending.

I do not deny that vaccines can cause adverse effects - but outside of vaccine trials and Army experimental vaccines, the rate of adverse effects is vastly lower than the rate of the same adverse effect that people experience who get infected.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:25AM (#33548835)
I had a family member come down with shingles shortly after getting boosted, hasn't been infected with covid in years.

There's enough discussion about this happening after vaccination: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34579250/

"Conclusion: This study indicates that the occurrence of VZV reactivation is clinically relevant. However, our findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccination is safe, and remains strongly recommended." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35931613/

Of course there's the obligatory, robotic, throat-clearing that vaccines should still be taken even when they find evidence of a side-effect.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by formerkrogemp on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:12PM (#33549744)
> I had a family member come down with shingles shortly after getting boosted, hasn't been infected with covid in years.

Covid has only been around for a couple of years.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by butler14 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:27AM (#33548875)
Sanofi have just today announced a clinical trial for a new RSV vaccine https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63572228.amp
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by jefftk on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:26AM (#33548866)
> Acquiring immunity by suffering through an actual infection is always, always worse than acquiring it by a vaccine.

I mean, yes, but only because that's one of our criteria for approving a new vaccine.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taxicabjesus on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:01AM (#33548381)
IaaS: Immunity as a Service.

Humanity's betrayal by Science™ is complete.