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Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:41AM (#33549141)
> Above-normal levels of myocarditis and pericarditis were associated with vaccination (Pfizer has been used in Israel where the study originates) but not with covid-19 infection.

Studies in the UK [1] and US [2] have shown that while, yes, there is an increased risk for myocarditis in vaccinated people, the risk of myocarditis in infected people is way higher.

[1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA....

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by chedca21 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:53AM (#33549369)
If you take an intramuscular injection without aspirating the needle to make sure it's not found a blood vessel in the deltoid, you risk cardiovascular damage pointlessly. The standard of practice is so absurd and flawed yet its going to take years longer before people like you become aware of how badly we've been mislead.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:28PM (#33550006)
This particular medical error scenario has been identified quickly with the covid vaccines and staff has been warned and trained.
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by nradov on Thursday November 10, 2022 @02:43PM (#33551999)
One mouse study found that vaccine injection without aspiration did significantly increase the risk of adverse cardiac events. That research hasn't been reproduced in humans but this area deserves further investigation. At least early in the pandemic, US healthcare providers weren't routinely aspirating.

https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciab941

https://doi.org/10.1007/s43440-022-00361-4

http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/postgradmedj-2021-141119

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by mschuster91 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @03:25PM (#33552762)
> At least early in the pandemic, US healthcare providers weren't routinely aspirating.

... What? Here in Germany, that's like one of the basic things that people who deal with needles on anything alive learn.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @05:18PM (#33554336)
yea it doesn't happen much at all in the US, tons of normal ppl were hired to inject people and AFAIK that was never really part of instruction
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by nradov on Thursday November 10, 2022 @05:29PM (#33554492)
I don't know the injection practices in Germany. The WHO and US CDC no longer recommend aspiration prior to intramuscular injection, mainly over pain management concerns. (I'm not claiming this is a good idea, just pointing out the current injection protocol.)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/acip-recs/general-recs/admi...

In practice there is a wide variance between US healthcare providers depending on where they work and how they were trained. Some aspirate, some don't, some try but use the wrong technique.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @11:57AM (#33549448)
Those studies you reference conflict with each other. The second isn't peer-reviewed.

From the first one, it actually says for men younger than 40, myocarditis is actually higher in vaccinated, whereas for women it's similar to infection:

"In men younger than 40 years old, the number of excess myocarditis events per million people was higher after a second dose of mRNA-1273 than after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test (97 [95% CI, 91–99] versus 16 [95% CI, 12–18]). In women younger than 40 years, the number of excess events per million was similar after a second dose of mRNA-1273 and a positive test (7 [95% CI, 1–9] versus 8 [95% CI, 6–8])."

That supports my belief that vaccination should be voluntary for everyone but especially young people.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by morsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:11PM (#33549731)
Here's another one, published in Nature Medicine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

I haven't read it beyond the abstract.

We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:03PM (#33549596)
That supports my belief that vaccination should be voluntary for everyone

Putting strain on the already overwhelmed healthcare system is a voluntary choice? Especially antisocial: the person who made the voluntary choice to attend the hospital now chooses to infect the healthcare personnel. If that's not evil it's hard to say what would be.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by taolegal on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:07PM (#33549656)
But clearly people are spreading coronavirus while vaccinated?
Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by HarryHirsch on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:42PM (#33551137)
At least they stay away from hospital. One wishes that the country had proper sick leave and labour protections so that people can stay at home and cure their infection instead of spreading it at work.

We are seeing the fallout in the labour participation rate - it's partly due to people retiring instead of risking catching a potentially disabling disease and partly due to people unable to work because of Covid sequelae. One hopes that the government catches on.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by briandon on Thursday November 10, 2022 @12:06PM (#33549637)
From the Methods section of the Patone paper (your first link): "A self-controlled case series study of people ages 13 years or older vaccinated for COVID-19 in England between December 1, 2020, and December 15, 2021 [...]"

In other words, all of the participants received covid vaccines.

The second paper you've linked studied unvaccinated persons (mRNA-vax recipients were specifically excluded) and its claim of higher rates of myocarditis for covid infection is based other researchers' values of myocarditis incidence post-vax and, as alluded to in the Discussion section, skewed by relatively low 2nd-shot uptake among the American participants (myocarditis risk associated with mRNA shots goes up with each successive dose).

The Israeli paper looks at myocarditis in persons before the vaccines became available (March 2020) and then afterwards. In Israel, 2nd shot and further shot uptake was much higher than in many other places.

Re:Flu and colds are back with a vengeance by anon291 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:32PM (#33550996)
The good news is that everyone who was vaccinated also got COVID