In the UK an undergrad is 3 years in most cases, then 3 years for a PhD, so 6 years total.
Some institutions will technically admit you for a PhD with no prior degree at all, but nobody does this in practice.
Tbh most Master’s, esp MSc, don’t add anything.
Yes, but not a graduate degree.
For comparison, at least in Austria, you need to have finished both a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Science in order to be able to start a PhD.
That's usually not the case in the USA (and some common law countries), where you only need the equivalent of a Bachelor of Science in order to start the PhD. You then do a small version of the Master of Science in parallel with the PhD.
It is possible to do the MSc over 5-6 years and spend some time working, whether in parallel with studies as a teaching assistant, or taking a term/year out to get some industry experience. But in terms of credits gained, an MSc is 4 years net of studies.
- Usually 3 year (a post graduate education expected, otherwise 5 years) - Considered a job, you are paid USD ~4k a month (depending on field)
> It's not even possible to go beyond 5 years
And we still wonder why nobody is trying to paint a new Giocconda now, and where are the big results.
First they repeat ad nauseam that only want the very passionate people, but then require you to choose a mediocre theme to work on it and to solve very complex problems that nobody has figured before, in a couple of years, plus other to write. And then the grants delay the payment for three years.
This happens by two very simple reules
1. Anybody starting in science must be dumber than this boss.
I want to study a complex theme for six or ten, or twenty years with my own money, well... is my problem. Who are the politicians to say that I can't do it?. Oh, the second rule:
2. Any grant money give for a politician must benefit the politician career. Period. This means that science is now crushed to fit electoral intervals of four years. Period.
Unexpected maternity? Two years of covid?, say bye to your career and the investment of decades of study
There is the problem that research funding (also after the PhD) is associated to projects that only last for a few years, but that seems to be pretty much universal.
Is that €400 total to complete a PhD programme? Or do you mean specifically _tuition_ fees are small, but there are still other fees applicable? (Just clarifying, cause in Ireland when I was at university, they spoke a lot about "free tuition fees", but universities still charged thousands per year to students for "administration fees", to cover everything that wasn't explicitly tuition).
Also worth bearing in mind that international students (i.e. non-EU) often have higher fees, which can be as high as double or triple what home students (EU) pay. (Though if the total is only €400 that's still obviously really good!)
But putting all the fees together, it's less than €700 for the whole PhD programme. There are no administration fees or other large fees.
The capped length sounds nice, but I think the years they shave off are mostly just at the start, not the years you spend grinding out research. The first year of a US PhD would typically be separated out as an independent Master's degree in Europe.
I have no idea what the academic culture is like over there, so I can't actually say whether it would've been better with regards to the things I disliked about PhD. But the facts you presented don't make me optimistic. A lot of them I don't consider problems in the US personally, and the absolute biggest problem for me is the ridiculous professorship job pipeline.
I'd also be cautious about that 50% US drop out number. It is likely < 20% at a T25 program in any STEM field in the US, certainly in my field that is the case. Perhaps it is higher in CS because people intentionally master out after 2 years to take a lucrative tech job. But I wouldn't consider that failing with the kind of connotation "drop out" has.
I would suggest extra caution before attending a mediocre (or worse) program of course.
I assumed reality would be somewhat less grim as my sample is probably biased towards the ones who complain, but maybe it's so biased that it doesn't even resemble reality at all.
Barely subsisting is definitely not true for a STEM PhD at a decent program though. You're getting paid way less than you could probably, but as long as you're willing to have a couple housemates (usually fellow students) and are not yet supporting anyone else it's a reasonably comfortable wage. Keep in mind that solid health insurance and student perks like university gym membership are also provided at 0 cost.
This might be controversial, but people who have excess expenses (for whatever reason) in their mid 20s probably shouldn't undertake a PhD in the first place. That's the only way a STEM researcher who didn't settle for a subpar school could possibly end up in additional debt as a PhD student IME.
Post doc wages, given the career stage and associated job culture/benefits, are notably shittier. Debt still feels like an exaggeration to me, but a 35 year old with a lot of training and unclear future career prospects should at least be able to support a middle class family lifestyle with their postdoc wages. A 25 year old that is working towards an actual degree and still benefiting from student status is such a different situation.
In hindsight, the maximally enjoyable thing might be to work for FIRE and then pseudo retire to being a PhD student. A PhD can be inherently valuable, the problem is just how tied it is to an insane career path.
Anyway, it's possible the posting students are humanities PhDs? At a good place they still don't pay tuition, but will often get basically 0 stipend. So they legit need loans for living expenses. Either that or Twitter amplifies complaints from schools that one really should not do a PhD at.
For example, in Spain:
- Typical PhD duration: 4 years. It's not even possible to go beyond 5 years (there is a hard cap) and if you want to do it fast, typically 3.5 years or so is enough in most fields if you do it full time.
- Tuition is a symbolic amount (something like 100 €/year or so).
- Most students do their PhD either with a grant or a contract. So it's basically a normal job. Not a high-paying one, mind you, but a job. You typically get something in the range of 1200-1600 €/month and social security. Enough to live reasonably well (not luxuriously, but comfortably) in almost any city that is not Madrid or Barcelona (in those two you'd need to share a flat and it wouldn't be very good, but in most of the rest of the country, a typical rent is around 600 €).
- I don't have figures on drop out but I don't think it's anywhere near 50%, if I had to give a pessimistic estimate I would say 20% at most.
Of course, the bit about becoming a professor is still true (although the competition is somewhat different, less about brilliance and more about sweat... very roughly speaking, churning out more papers than your competitors even if the papers aren't that great. But there are still much fewer professor jobs than PhD candidates).