News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by paxys on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:48PM (#33497667)
Google, Apple, Microsoft, TikTok, Tesla, NVidia and the vast majority of tech companies of all sizes that have been using this exact same interview process for decades are managing to innovate just fine.

Facebook's problem has never been engineering. Blame its leadership and the product decisions they made (like dumping $4B a quarter into a "metaverse" that nobody wants).

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by ldjkfkdsjnv on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:50PM (#33497696)
Not quite. Facebook is the pinnacle of memorization. Google is similar and is absolutely not innovating, they just have a monopoly on search, and a bunch of side projects copying other companies (AWS, Microsoft Word) etc. Microsoft does not interview like that, and TikTok is a copy of FB funded by the CCP. Tesla does not ask leetcode hard interview questions. Neither does Amazon. I am intimately familiar with the interview process.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by pcbro141 on Sunday November 06, 2022 @05:10PM (#33497941)
TikTok is not a copy of Facebook. The fact Facebook/Meta/Instagram is trying desperately to copy them is proof of that.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by ldjkfkdsjnv on Sunday November 06, 2022 @05:16PM (#33498014)
The algorithm is drastically better, but is also better because TikTok doesnt have as strong as a need for profit. Its a long story, and yes its a good product. But its an incremental algorithmic change, not a new product category
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday November 06, 2022 @07:04PM (#33499172)
TBH I have no idea what you are talking about. There have even been a bunch of articles along the lines of "the social network is dead". That is, Facebook is all about who your friends are and your overall social network. TikTok has none of that - it's about following and finding content that is entertaining, not that an old friend just had a baby.

Heck, a big part of TikTok was Musical.ly, an app for lip syncing videos. That was a huge stroke of luck/foresight because it gave TikTok a lot of the music rights deals they would need to allow people to put videos to music.

Are you really arguing an app around individual videos set to music (which, in my experience, is still the vast majority of TikTok videos) is somehow an "incremental product change" to a friends-based social network?

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by ldjkfkdsjnv on Sunday November 06, 2022 @07:22PM (#33499357)
I'm too busy to explain it. But in short, the facebook/instagram (and youtube) algorithms are built to optimize:

1. Content that is profitable from an advertising perspective

2. Censoring certain content/only showing major/authoritative sources.

TikTok changed that by allowing grass roots content to go viral, which from an algorithmic perspective is less profitable. But that doesnt matter, its backed by the CCP. Theres alot that goes into why tiktok is better, and alot of it is monetary/business related, not computer science.

But beyond that, FB/Google just got lazy and stopped pushing for new things. Wildly successful and presumed monopolies, they left a massive product gap (allowing grass roots content to go viral), which TikTok filled.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by PaulHoule on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:26PM (#33499876)
Also TikTok seems to use a multi-armed bandit to balance explore/exploit in a way that previous sites didn't.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by disgruntledphd2 on Monday November 07, 2022 @03:42AM (#33502988)
TikTok have much better labelled training data, because you need to interact.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by rvz on Monday November 07, 2022 @01:17AM (#33501846)
Correct. TikTok is a worse version of Facebook, funnelling data back to the CCP (as required), spying on certain individuals physical locations [0] on the platform, and creators are once again working for its algorithm that can dictate what is seen and unseen, for the content to be seen by billions, just like before.

They hype around it is because it is the current thing.

[0] https://futurism.com/tiktok-spy-locations-specific-americans

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jarsin on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:59PM (#33497806)
Did amazon change recently? I got leetcoded there. I even applied to a web dev role using ruby on rails and was blindsided by the hard trick questions.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by dirac44 on Sunday November 06, 2022 @05:49PM (#33498356)
No, the person saying they don't do LC hard questions is not correct. Most are going to be LC medium but they do ask LC hard in some interviews. I can in fact point to two questions I was asked by Amazon in the last few months and I worked there for several years. In any event they are mostly LC medium, possibly LC hard--exactly what you should expect from a FB interview in the past couple of years.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by flyinglizard on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:52PM (#33497730)
FB did technical innovation just fine. The problem is with the product, and this is not something that engineers solve.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by bsaul on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:58PM (#33497791)
And yet i still think the facebook page sucks tremendously from an engineering pov. It hasn't evolved in years feature wise and yet it still slows to a crawl whenever i launch it.

Totally unimpressed.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by datavirtue on Sunday November 06, 2022 @07:12PM (#33499262)
I use (try to sometimes) the Facebook lite app on Android. It rarely opens. Just sits there spinning on the logo screen. It has been consistently acting like this for years through several updates of both Android and the app...on various phones. Shrug.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by ldjkfkdsjnv on Sunday November 06, 2022 @04:56PM (#33497764)
The problem is that it should be something that engineers solve. Non technical product managers from top schools are not equipped to drive innovation if they are not on the technical ground level.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by kjeetgill on Sunday November 06, 2022 @05:46PM (#33498329)
> TikTok is a copy of FB funded by the CCP.

With all due respect — Facebook (the product) is one of the social platforms furthest from TikTok. Even roughly equating them sounds like you might not use, know, or understand any of them. Vine, YouTube, or Snapchat maybe — they all differ in different ways — or even Insta I get ... But Facebook?

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by partiallypro on Sunday November 06, 2022 @07:54PM (#33499635)
I think he's specifically taking about the algorithm. Tiktok can be friendless, but so can Reels and Youtube. In the end Tiktok is a similar concept to Facebook when you consider that it's catered content.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by vmladenov on Sunday November 06, 2022 @09:20PM (#33500296)
> Microsoft does not interview like that [...] Neither does Amazon

This is straight up wrong. Both companies ask difficult algorithms questions in their interviews.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by ren_engineer on Monday November 07, 2022 @01:20AM (#33501868)
"difficult" is relative, MS and Amazon interviews are considered jokes/warmups compared to some of the other places that are basically asking competitive programming questions
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:13PM (#33499783)
> a "metaverse" that nobody wants

This is going to be the next famous “nobody wants Dropbox” comment.

I don’t know if Horizon Worlds is going to be successful, but Reality Labs is much, much bigger than that. Do you honestly believe no one wants VR and AR? Seriously?

Think about gaming alone. Think about sitting on an airplane with three 50” monitors overlaid with your vision, where you can actually code, or do whatever. Travel, education, shopping, entertainment. The possibilities are endless.

This stuff is basically already possible today, and maybe a couple years away from a legitimately good experience.

Meta is way out in the lead on this. When the media talks about the spending on Metaverse, they’re always imagining Horizon Worlds. I think it’s entirely possible Horizon Worlds becomes successful. I mean, my company does some watercooler meetings in gather.towns, where you have a tiny little 32x32 pixel avatar. It’s entirely possible in a few years we’ll be doing these in Horizon Worlds. But even if we’re not, and that’s entirely bunk, Reality Labs is still the leading VR headset manufacturer, with a ton of software to make it all possible, still has an entire games division in Oculus Studios, and much more.

People definitely want this stuff. It’s early days still, and Reality Labs is definitely burning cash rapidly, but they also sold a billion dollars of headsets over the past year.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by smackeyacky on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:42PM (#33499971)
When (if) they solve the balance/vomit inducing nature of the VR headsets and find a way not to ruin your eyes because they are focused at 2cm for extended periods of time, maybe VR will take off.

Until then, VR is a nausea inducing gimmick like 3D TV that adds precisely nothing to any kind of human interaction.

Augmented reality... that has some actual uses. VR is not even that good for games, let alone the fantasy of having a meeting enhanced by using it.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by vmladenov on Sunday November 06, 2022 @09:06PM (#33500174)
Eyes are not focused at 2cm in VR, that's ridiculous. The focus distance is several meters but it varies between sets. You notice this when objects get close to you and your natural instinct causes you to focus closer, making the entire field of view go out of focus.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by umanwizard on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:06PM (#33500628)
I upvoted you because I agree overall, but it’s absolutely wrong that VR isn’t good for games. The first time I played a game in VR was a mind-blowing experience.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by solardev on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:36PM (#33499939)
Do they though...? They've been saying that about VR since the VirtualBoy, and still nobody wants it. It's just some super niche activity that's novel for all of a couple hours and then quickly gets old. yawn I bet we'll still be hearing about proper VR is just around the corner, twenty years from now...
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:52PM (#33500072)
The growth in VR headsets is quickly becoming a hockey stick. 5 million in 2020, 8 million this year, 11 million projected next year, with an install base of 25 million.

To put this in perspective, there were 8 million PS5 sales in 2022, and 6.5 million Xbox X.

I realize this is not quite an apt comparison, and I’m lumping all VR headsets from all manufacturers together. But this is rapidly becoming a big deal.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by solardev on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:58PM (#33500112)
vs more than a billion smartphones sold, 300 million PCs, 30 million monitors...
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @09:06PM (#33500179)
It was only fifteen years ago that the original iPhone launched with 6 million units sold.

Look, I’m not necessarily claiming Quest VR headsets will be the next iPhone. But I think it’s pretty likely this will be a big and important product over the next few years.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by pixl97 on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:52PM (#33500069)
>Do you honestly believe no one wants VR and AR?

That's not important question, that question is, do enough people want this that it will pay off.

I mean I heard that 3D TV was the shit a decade ago, but we don't much of that around.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by fdsafdewe on Sunday November 06, 2022 @09:46PM (#33500487)
>Think about sitting on an airplane with three 50” monitors overlaid with your vision

What will anyone do with that, except watch funny cat videos?

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:03PM (#33500608)
Any number of things. These are just like regular desktop monitors, just virtual. You can have an IDE open on one, a browser on another, email on another. Or whatever you normally use a monitor for.

The resolution is not quite there yet, but it’s getting close.

Horizon Workroom, along with Horizon Remote Desktop are tools that allow you do real tasks in VR/AR.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by fdsafdewe on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:38PM (#33500840)
>These are just like regular desktop monitors,

Funny cat videos it is.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by umanwizard on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:04PM (#33500618)
> Think about gaming alone. Think about sitting on an airplane with three 50” monitors overlaid with your vision, where you can actually code, or do whatever.

The common feature of metaverse bulls seems to be asserting without evidence that pixel density will increase massively from its current state, such that emulating several monitors will be viable.

I see no reason to believe this is true. It’s not the case that all technology you can imagine will eventually exist. Things always level off eventually, which is why I don’t have a 10 GHz processor today.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:27PM (#33500751)
I agree there are limitations, but Meta announced Project Cambria last year, with an expected resolution of 1230 DPI, up from 770 on Quest Pro.

If they can achieve that, people are going to start doing real work on the headsets.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by umanwizard on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:35PM (#33500810)
What DPI do you estimate would be needed to emulate three 50-inch monitors?
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by jlmorton on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:42PM (#33500861)
To be honest, I’m not an expert, and you’d just be getting a lay opinion. They say human vision can discern about 60 pixels per degree. I believe Quest Pro achieves about 20, and Project Cambria might push 30.

Note that the 1200 DPI is per eye.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by zeroonetwothree on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:10PM (#33500655)
How many people spend so much of their time on airplanes that they need to optimize it? The average flights/year is around 1 per person.
Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by tjpnz on Monday November 07, 2022 @12:37AM (#33501616)
>Think about gaming alone. Think about sitting on an airplane with three 50” monitors overlaid with your vision, where you can actually code, or do whatever. Travel, education, shopping, entertainment. The possibilities are endless.

I would much rather look out the window, read or sleep.

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by hardware2win on Monday November 07, 2022 @08:13AM (#33505350)
>This is going to be the next famous “nobody wants Dropbox” comment.

Did you bet money on that?

e.g by purchasing meta stocks

Re:Meta Is Preparing to Notify Employees of Large-Scale Layo... by umanwizard on Sunday November 06, 2022 @10:02PM (#33500602)
Google’s interview process is not based on memorization in the same way Facebook’s is (or at least was when I worked there 3 years ago).

Facebook makes zero effort to retire questions that have leaked on Leetcode and similar sites, so memorization really does give you a huge advantage. All the coding questions I regularly asked people were literally on the “Facebook” section on Leetcode.