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Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by theGeatZhopa on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:41AM (#33432405)
They're still able to have fun there. Rides continue to work :)

On the other side, in some parts of Europe there's a discussion to let the infected go to work (even with symptoms and of course, if one's feeling capable of work) - but, still, go to work with other infected/work with infected.

I can understand that with so high density in people even one infection can lead to big massive spreads and thus to overloaded capacity of local hospitals in less than 48h - but, it's too much. I don't have a suggestion how to handle that either. The Best would be everyone just stick a few weeks to the measures and diminish the countless spots to a few controllable one's. If that would be possible, we would not only reduce the cases, but also slowly minimize the spreading. May be 1-2 months, everything wouldn't be a problem any more..

Nike: just do it :)

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by tcmb on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:50AM (#33432471)
> The Best would be everyone just stick a few weeks to the measures and diminish the countless spots to a few controllable one's.

Isn’t that what China has been attempting for months, rather unsuccessfully?

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by Firmwarrior on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:01AM (#33432539)
Their strategy is extremely successful. They have an excuse to lock people down and turn parts of the country into a prison any time they want.. forever!
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by ithkuil on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:58AM (#33432965)
Are you saying that the CCP just wants to lock up people for the perverse pleasure of having random people locked up?

Regimes lock up particular people when particular people are a threat. They may lock people up unnecessarily just to err on the side of caution. But if they overdo it it can backfire. So far the main reason I hear from Chinese people to criticize Xi and the CCP is mostly about COVID and lockdowns, and never for any of the reasons westerners point the finger against the regime

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by injinj on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:16AM (#33433119)
It's sort of a neo-hukou system? A positive covid signal is basically house arrest. Since they do covid tests in batches of 20, it is expected to get false positives.
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:02AM (#33432992)
It's surprising how successful it is given relatively low immunity among the population and how infectious the new variants are. And yet its both unsustainable and will have to be maintained forever. There is currently no plausible path out of the measures.

If you had to choose between a 1% risk of being crippled by COVID, or a 100% risk of living under the strictest lockdown measures your country had for the rest of your life, what would you choose? And the actual risk of long-term consequences is lower.

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by paganel on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:23AM (#33432688)
> On the other side, in some parts of Europe there's a discussion to let the infected go to work

I live in Europe, the "infected" have gone to work just fine since this February just fine. I mean, those that didn't call in sick days out of their own volition.

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by sydd on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:41AM (#33432804)
> They're still able to have fun there. Rides continue to work :)

Mr. Bones wild ride is real! https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/rhs54/one_does_not_...

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by derkades on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:46AM (#33432863)
Here in the Netherlands, it may not be policy, but a large number of people just don't care anymore. People with symptoms like coughing and changing tone of voice are still going to school, work and parties. No one wears masks except for some tourists or other foreigners. When planning an event, not a single moment is thought about COVID.
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by smcl on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:12AM (#33433079)
Broadly similar in CZ - masks aren't anywhere now and I don't anticipate anyone wearing them unless mandated. Even then, I can see a lot of resistance unless they send the police to into public transport and shops to dish out some severe on-the-spot fines. There are also a lot of people I know who have the "oh I have had this weird cough for days, and I feel a bit off ... but it's not covid I did a home test!" followed a few days later with "ok I have covid".

It's a little frustrating, because a bit of painless extra caution now could help avoid something stronger down the line :-/

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by ummonk on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:17AM (#33433122)
I wish we (in my case America, but this applies everywhere outside some parts of East Asia really) could just go back to normal but have normal include not going outside, or at least wearing a mask and frequently washing hands when you get the cold...
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by mettamage on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @06:52AM (#33433798)
I don't care anymore because I've eyeballed that on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) [1], and it doesn't seem to be changing. That's less than flu season (which is more like 3000 to 5000 per year). I don't have sources for the flu. I read it somewhere, I might be underestimating or overestimating a bit.

And of course, all those deaths are horrible, and I feel that pain when I contemplate that for a second. But in my day to day life, I don't see why I'd need to change my behavior.

I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, but IMO I feel like I need to choose the lesser between two evils which is:

1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide?

2. Do I lock myself down for 5 years, and fight preventing reduced long Covid and 0.15% deaths population wide?

The choices are written down simplified. If you think that there's hindsight bias, there's some but a lot less than you think. I was 2 to 3 weeks ahead of the Dutch government at any point in time. I've been able to protect all the people I care about. For example, my grandparents/parents never caught Covid when there was no vaccine (I was tracking Covid since mid Feb 2022 as a potential threat and constantly ran the probabilities). I'm not even sure if my grandparents ever caught it.

[1] coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by donkeyd on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @07:27AM (#33434061)
> I don't have sources for the flu.

Just look at the RIVM site. It's probably higher than you specified, closer to 6-7k average per year, with massive differences.

> on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year)

This is a bit of a dishonest comparison. You're looking at the numbers from before the expected peak, since it's still incredibly warm in the Netherlands right now and peaks seem to happen when it gets colder. So it'll probably be closer to 4000 per year.

While that still seems less than the flu, it's important to realize that the most vulnerable people are now getting vaccinated multiple times a year for covid. A lot of people who never got a flu shot are also being vaccinated. Then there's the fact that a lot of people are still distancing more than they used to. There's more work from home, many people still stay home when they have covid, while in the past, many people prided themselves for going to work with the flu.

It's really hard to compare historic flu statistics with current covid statistics, because the way we handle covid is still very different from how we used to handle the flu. Therefore your conclusion is misguided.

Now I really don't care whether you care about covid, but at lease the interpretation of the statistics should be correct and you missed a ton of details.

[1] https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by mettamage on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @09:32PM (#33445574)
Fair enough, thanks :)
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by Izkata on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @08:22AM (#33434565)
> 1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide?

It was never as high as 2% in the first place. The numbers were inflated because we didn't have enough tests to go around, so only the people who we were already pretty sure were infected were tested.

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by dennis_jeeves1 on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:06PM (#33468977)
>I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people,

Personal observation ( which contracts established 'science' ). There were always some 'long' aspects of all diseases including for colds/coughs/flu/tuberculosis etc. Nothing special with 'covid'.

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by tgsovlerkhgsel on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:07AM (#33433036)
The problem with the "just a short lockdown" approach is that there is no endgame. As soon as you stop the lockdowns you're back to square one very quickly unless you take extremely drastical measures like China does. This would involve extreme travel restrictions to/from any place that doesn't take a similar approach.
Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by mantas on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:47AM (#33433349)
> in some parts of Europe there's a discussion to let the infected go to work

Discussions? It's already a thing at least here in Lithuania. Unless you're seriously ill with side effects, you're good to go.

Re:Disneyland Shanghai shuts over COVID, visitors unable to ... by christkv on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @06:21AM (#33433604)
You'll live in the park forever. Forcefully made to ride the rides everyday to keep up the Disney spirit and getting the same Mickey shaped burger each day as the mascots slowly spiral into demented depression.