News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by ekianjo on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:30PM (#33431139)
Artificial crisis created by the need for degrees to do the most simple of jobs
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by shagie on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:40PM (#33431189)
The culinary degree is not the short order scramble eggs type cook (and my apologies to short order cooks reading this - I know you do a lot more than that).

A culinary degree also covers food safety, nutrition, sanitation, menu planning, a bit of accounting (purchasing, inventory, storage), and other topics.

https://sealiftcommand.com/departments/culinary/chief-cook/2...

This isn't a four year STEM bachelors degree, but you want to make sure you have someone who isn't mixing utensils, going short on provisions, or spoiling food.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by longcommonname on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:28AM (#33431445)
I am a trained military lab tech, military chef and I now do computer things as a civilian.

My military training included all those things. When you are feeding a war / humanitarian effort / training you have very little budget to provide a meal that hundreds will want to enjoy in a safe manner.

Don't minimize the knowledge/ effort required to do this.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by shagie on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:41AM (#33431513)
I hope that I didn't trivialize the skills of a cook (too far). I recognize that they have an incredible job with a wide range of responsibilities and are responsible in part for the health and morale of the entire ship's crew.

The skills for being the only chef on a 24 person cutter compared to a ship with a hundred or several hundred and an entire staff (and longer deployments https://youtu.be/d2_wBfXBM1Q ) places additional demands on that skill set (or even up to the several thousand with an aircraft carrier, though that's not coast guard - https://youtu.be/w5th1yNwatQ ).

It's not like the crew can decide to go to a different restaurant when out at sea.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by woodruffw on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:46PM (#33431212)
My parse of the sentence wasn't that a degree is required, but that having one will get you a larger bonus.

(This also assumes that being a cook on a ship is simple, which it probably isn't.)

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by shagie on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:58PM (#33431284)
> (This also assumes that being a cook on a ship is simple, which it probably isn't.)

The ship you are on is going on a 3 month deployment with a stop in port somewhere between 4 weeks in and 6 weeks in (depending on weather). The ship has a crew of 24 people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel-class_cutter ).

Plan the menus, determine the provisions needed initially on ship and the additional supplies that need to be available when in port mid way through the deployment.

Make sure that the menus meet with the necessary requirements for nutrition. Two of the crew have nut allergies and one has a low sodium diet.

While the crew total is 24 people, it is possible that others will be brought on top the ship in situations where it is warranted - the provisions need to be able to account for up to an additional four people for a week.

You are the only cook and will need to be able to prepare three meals for the entire crew and have an overnight snack available. The ship runs on coffee, it should be better quality than burnt fuel oil.

The cook is essential for crew morale (consider being on a ship for 3 months and having a cook who burns all the food). Food safety is also of high importance - having any number of the crew unable to do their duties because of food poisoning is a significant impact on ship function when there's only two dozen people and little overlap.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:04AM (#33431315)
Can they just contract out to civilians or even foreigners? A cook from the Philippines for example, give them American pay and it would be pretty fair. There is even a history of Filipinos serving in the US military for varying reasons.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by TylerE on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:07AM (#33431331)
Militaries tend not to do that, for obvious security reasons.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by kodah on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:08AM (#33431334)
The Marines used to have a system for allowing civilians cook for the military. It's awful and I wouldn't recommend it. In-service cooks are much better and usually very skilled.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by bsder on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:46PM (#33431216)
Hardly. Cooks generally wind up managing inventory--that's a quartermaster-type job and you need some brains to run that. If you screw it up, you screw up the mission completely.

The fundamental problem is that the Coast Guard is always chronically underfunded.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by hinkley on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:03AM (#33431311)
Napoleon Bonaparte offered to set someone up for life if they could come up with a process for shelf stable (or rather, wagon stable) food. “An army marches on its stomach” has been military wisdom for at least that long.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by eesmith on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:59AM (#33432155)
More specifically, 12,000 francs. The winner was Nicolas Appert, for "thermal processing (aka canning)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Appert .

Tin cans + can opener took a few more years.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by hinkley on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @01:51PM (#33440077)
What I didn’t know is that the same year he published a book describing his process, someone in England figured out metal cans.

The germ theory had not been worked out at this point so he knew it worked but not the mechanism.

Which is to say I believe everyone understood that boiling made things safe or for longer. It would be almost 50 years before people heard of Pasteur’s work with fermentation (and how to stop it).

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by eesmith on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:13PM (#33442305)
I learned it from the Connections episode "Eat, Drink, and Be Merry", at https://archive.org/details/ConnectionsByJamesBurke/Connecti...

That segment starts at 16:57 (after development of the Swiss pike, changes in military tactics, mass mobilization in France, leading to the need to feed large mobile armies.)

This being Burke, it's not until 20:40 that it gets to setting up the competition and Appert.

At 24:10 is the transition to talking about tin cans. After discussing a machine to make paper, at 26:06 it leads into the chain of events that resulted in (at 27:49) that French book being translated into English, patented in England, and started (at 28:17) making preserved canned foods - because they were better at metal than bottles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_and_tin_cans says the idea was conceived by Philippe de Girard, who got the British merchant Peter Durand to patent the idea in 1810.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_opener adds "the first can openers were not patented until 1855 in England and 1858 in the United States."

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by watwut on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:23AM (#33433157)
That was cause pillaging took time and effort. Fortunately we have solved that problem and can feed military without having to torture it away from locals.
[dead]
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by lostlogin on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:59PM (#33431291)
Lockdown brought this home to some people and seeing those at the privileged end of society realise that teachers, nurses, checkout operators etc are what keeps their world turning was darkly amusing. It seems to be forgotten fast though, sadly.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by TapWaterBandit on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:16AM (#33431379)
Lol teachers? I don't know about where you live but where I live teachers couldn't get out of the classroom fast enough.

Few professions discredited themselves as much as teachers over the pandemic. Spent a good 2 years in many places screaming "We aren't essential, shut the schools!" never mind the impact on the kids.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by lostlogin on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:54AM (#33431563)
Whatever your view on teachers, it’s pretty apparent that having kids at home 100% of the time makes parent’s life more difficult. This is part of the reason I was saying teachers are valuable.

My view on teachers not wanting to hang about or even leaving the job is that I would too if I was them.

Why stay in the plague pit for approximately minimum wage and the abuse they were copping from parents? They aren’t paid enough to care, but for some reason, most do. Parents were calling teachers from early in the morning until late at night, 7 days a week and wanted remote parenting over Skype.

I’ve been trying to talk my wife out of being a teacher, and the reasons pre-date covid.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by TapWaterBandit on Thursday November 03, 2022 @09:57AM (#33451065)
Teachers aren't on close to minimum wage where I'm at. Try high 5 and more often than not 6 figure incomes.

Like I said, no profession has done as much to discredit their importance during the pandemic as teachers. Where im at the effect students has been catastrophic and still they endlessly bitch.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by ajsnigrutin on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:58PM (#33431285)
Because this is the coast guard, and like most other large services, most of the things can be centralized and standardized.

I live in the balkans, and the military here (during conscription times) had standardized everything... they took a few cooking-inclined conscripts, gave them the recipe and food items per person and they cooked the food. Everything was precalculated. Some people are still so fond of "military food", there are actual military cookbooks for sale, with recipes such as "military beans" (vojnicki pasulj): https://secanja.com/vojnicki-pasulj-po-receptu-jna/ (including the tables of nutritional info)

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by woodruffw on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:10AM (#33431342)
I don't think the problem here is a lack of centralization or standardization. The US's military logistics are well known for successfully (and unsuccessfully) applying both, and it's unlikely that USCG cooks are making custom three course meals for their ships.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by nerdponx on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:06AM (#33431325)
This is a good question.

It's possible that the Coast Guard places high value on "good food" as part of their morale.

It's also possible that the nature of USCG operations prevent them from standardizing food onboard, since it sounds like part of this particular ship's mission brought it to various ports where supplies were not guaranteed.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by bezier-curve on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:14AM (#33431363)
This is a lot about how US society values service workers in general. The media quickly forgot about "essential workers" after lockdowns in 2020.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by politician on Tuesday November 01, 2022 @11:53PM (#33431253)
Don't be discouraged by the Eternal September.
Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by bpodgursky on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @12:02AM (#33431308)
Degrees != Training

4-year degrees are almost completely useless filler (think about it — that's 5000+ hours of potential training). Most "degree" requirements could be stripped down maybe 90% and contain the same or more job-specific content.

An intense 8-week course would prepare most people for most jobs better than a college diploma requirement.

Re:Cook Shortage Threatens to Sink U.S. Coast Guard Operations by Ekaros on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:22AM (#33432293)
Software and other STEM likely benefit for their degrees. And some other specific fields.

But if you were to ask other office workers how much of their degrees they use... It would likely come up as huge waste of time and resources.