News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by shadowgovt on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:28PM (#33378777)
I don't see anything in Elon Musk's past operation of businesses as CEO that suggests to me he's going to have a better sense of how to run a social network than the previous operators.

I predict the best case scenario is that he does no worse.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by Retric on Friday October 28, 2022 @08:31PM (#33379719)
The most likely result seems to be he sells it within 5 years after making zero meaningful changes and taking a massive loss. I don’t know if that’s a good or bad result.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by dvt on Friday October 28, 2022 @08:54PM (#33379838)
I don't think he'd sell. At this point, I think it's more of a "crown jewel" for him—like the tech nerd equivalent of owning a baseball or a basketball team.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by fshbbdssbbgdd on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:35PM (#33380092)
Twitter will owe > 1B/year in interest. If it doesn’t start making money, it either goes bankrupt or Elon bails it out.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by im_down_w_otp on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:33PM (#33380084)
I guess so, maybe? Though I can barely think of a less interesting tech-y thing to own than something like Twitter when you already own SpaceX and Tesla. In terms of Tech-y-ness, Twitter is a spectacular downgrade.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by jrumbut on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:30PM (#33380721)
Space and car companies are highly dependent on the government, so maybe less a tech jewel than a political one.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by pydry on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:56AM (#33382893)
Twitter is to Musk what the Washington Post was to Bezos.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by themitigating on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:02PM (#33380589)
This would be the most expensive trophy ever purchased in the history of man.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by 55555 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:04AM (#33381144)
NEOM
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by bigtones on Friday October 28, 2022 @08:56PM (#33379850)
He will definitely make a lot of changes to the user experience of Twitter, and add a lot of features. He has already outlined some of the features he wants to add around billing and commerce, similar to super apps in China like Wechat. He has been thinking about this for a long time under the X banner.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by Retric on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:52PM (#33380200)
I fully expect the logo and UI to change, but he isn’t going to suddenly prevent people from following people, sending / reading tweets or do anything else that would drive most users away because that would just be setting billions of dollars on fire.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by api on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:51PM (#33380194)
If he manages to resell it at a gain, he will have flipped the bird.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by blagie on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:17PM (#33379974)
Ho boy was Twitter mismanaged up to now. I think that's why he bought it.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by Xelynega on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:22PM (#33380001)
Mismanaged according to who, him? He bought it because he forced the stock price down with the announcement and was forced into buying it.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by wyclif on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:06PM (#33380603)
"Forced into buying it" is really not an accurate way to think about it. It makes it sound like he never wanted to buy Twitter, when in fact he did want to buy it for less money because he knew the valuation was too high (because of bot farms, managerial bloat, &c.)
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by saghm on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:57PM (#33380829)
> he knew the valuation was too high (because of bot farms, managerial bloat, &c.)

"He knew the valuation was too high" is really not an accurate way to think about it. It makes it sound like he successfully proved those claims, when in fact he failed to present compelling enough evidence in court when he tried to use legal action to back out.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by wyclif on Sunday October 30, 2022 @11:34PM (#33401786)
Oops! Turns out Wachtell & Turner and the previous Twitter board hid evidence of fraudulent metrics. This could easily turn into legal popcorn time: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586885887341645824
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by riffraff on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:10AM (#33381440)
He set the price, than backpedaled not because he discovered new information, which he did not, but because the market slumped.

We know this because he decided not to go to court to prove that Twitter had hidden information.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by pjc50 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:05AM (#33382306)
He said he'd buy it at $54.20 and they held him to that. If he didn't mean it he shouldn't have said it (a constant Elon problem)
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by petre on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:12AM (#33381450)
44bn is a lot for a social media company. Westinghouse was sold off for 7.9bn. They make nuclear reactors as opposed to distributing short text messages over the Internet.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by blagie on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:54AM (#33382882)
It was mismanaged according to *me*. I posted my opinion. It may be incorrect. That's true of most posts on the internet.

Twitter has 7,500 employees. It doesn't take that many to run a Twitter. Most Twitter employees I know use their positions to work on things weakly aligned with the success of Twitter, such as random political or nerdy projects. That's a small sample set, but the things I hear raise my eyebrows.

If Twitter were private, and management aligned to shareholder value, the value could increase by a lot. I'm not sure if Musk can do that, or if it isn't overvalued in the first place, but that's my opinion on Twitter management from where I sit.

It's not uncommon for public companies, especially older ones, by the way. In many cases, almost every employee, right up through the CEO, is there to maximize their income, to maximize their future career prospects, and to have fun. That doesn't always align well with shareholder value.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by coldtea on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:29PM (#33380047)
He has to surpass a very very low bar...
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by marricks on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:08PM (#33380608)
The adage “there’s no way to please everyone” is the embodiment of that job.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by misiti3780 on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:59PM (#33380239)
i've typed this 1000 times. this is a win/win

either elon musk is the business genius a lot of people think he is (I think he is this) and he turns Twitter around and it's awesome.

else twitter fails and doesnt exist. net positive for the world and net negative for Elon, also good for humanity .

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by majormajor on Friday October 28, 2022 @10:04PM (#33380262)
Big room for middle ground in there of "Elon is good at some things, bad at others, Twitter muddles around as a net negative for the world."

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Musk's ~15 recent years of experiences with mechanical/aerospace/production-engineering businesses is gonna translate perfectly to whatever Twitter is supposed to be.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by nprateem on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:52AM (#33381664)
Musk's MO is in creating new markets in ambitious new areas. I see no evidence of his ability in turning round failing old companies with old, below-par products.

Maybe being forced to buy it (it's probably already halved in value at least) will make him think twice before gobbing off in future though.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by bhawks on Friday October 28, 2022 @10:12PM (#33380306)
Twitter is basically an internet scale public bathroom wall with everyone scrawling short hot takes onto the walls. The best case scenario has always been that it shut down and I hope we are one day closer to that eventuality.

It is ironic and laughable that Elons post to advertisers is done with screenshots of text. After 20+ years of mainstream networked computing this is what passes as a state of art platform and user experience to communicate to n audience.

The bulk of the problems Twitter faces today are amplified and directly inflicted by the essential design of the product.

Tl/Dr; nothing of value was lost.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by instagraham on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:56PM (#33380824)
What's wrong with screenshots of text? They're easily readable. The white background makes things stand out more than just posting text on stock Twitter. It's one reason Insta story posts and even slides have text.

Technological progress doesn't mean making user-hostile design. If users like a format or medium, you can offer it to them even if your platform is capable of greater things.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by ilyt on Saturday October 29, 2022 @12:37AM (#33381015)
> What's wrong with screenshots of text? They're easily readable. The white background makes things stand out more than just posting text on stock Twitter. It's one reason Insta story posts and even slides have text.

The fact you defend it as more readable than actual twitter design says a lot

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by shadowgovt on Friday October 28, 2022 @11:59PM (#33380838)
Mostly the fact that they completely ignore accessibility.

In fact, if Twitter did want to improve the user experience, automatic OCR of such text and generation of the corresponding alt tag would be a practical improvement. In fact, general recognition of the content of an image and auto generation of an ALT tag would be a significant improvement.

... But that require them to do actual machine learning as opposed to being the internet's bathroom stall wall.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by xbfjvusb6 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:26AM (#33381516)
OCR is a solved problem. It's like one call to tesseract and you're done.

The fact they haven't done this just shows how inept their employees are.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by snovv_crash on Saturday October 29, 2022 @03:11AM (#33381753)
Tesseract has a horrific API and decades of technical debt. Add to this, it's also very sensitive to fonts. So... yeah, OCR is 'solved', but that doesn't mean it's easy.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by xbfjvusb6 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @08:11AM (#33383358)
Solved for most the image text I see on social.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:47AM (#33382516)
Twitter does a lot of actual machine learning, but mostly to improve ad clickability.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @12:59AM (#33381119)
What's wrong? Everything.

Screenshots of text are popular because people don't seem to be able to copy and save data anymore. Social media apps don't let users download pictures anymore. I can only share intra-platform links to content. The Instagram app won't even let me select text. People get around this insanity by screenshotting the whole screen and saving a poor quality version of the data in image form. This is actually a lossy format conversion and will happen multiple times as people encounter resistance when they try to copy, save and share. It's not just images of text, it's screenshots of screenshots of of screenshots of text.

This is what computing has degenerated to. People can't do basic actions like copying and downloading anymore so they just use screen shots and screen recorders to get around software limitations. I've seen so many videos that end with the user manipulating the interface to stop the recorder. And then there's the people reduced to taking pictures of another screen with their phone cameras.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by autoexec on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:36AM (#33381288)
> Social media apps don't let users download pictures anymore.

These aren't problems with screenshots of text (although others have done a pretty good job in listing those) or even problems with computing. These are problems with shitty social media platforms that want to take control from their users, and with the users who accept those kinds of limitations. Stop using bad user-hostile platforms and they'll either improve to win back users or they'll become obsolete and die as people flock to better alternatives.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:59AM (#33381392)
> Stop using bad user-hostile platforms and they'll either improve to win back users or they'll become obsolete and die as people flock to better alternatives.

There's no point in migrating to some perfect encrypted federated free software platform and being alone because everyone I know is still using Instagram.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by grogenaut on Saturday October 29, 2022 @03:39AM (#33381898)
Maybe just stop using social media. If you're interesting your friends will contact you still. If you're not interesting, go get a hobby and become interesting.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @11:14AM (#33384736)
Usually this site is the only place I care about but there's a presidential election in my country tomorrow. I'm not gonna stop using social media right now. Future of my country is at stake.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by autoexec on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:32AM (#33382449)
> There's no point in migrating to some perfect encrypted federated free software platform and being alone because everyone I know is still using Instagram.

If everyone went by that logic no one could ever stop using the social media sites they are using today. If you've found a good platform your best bet is to get people to use it in addition to the bad ones they use now and as more people join and use the better platform people could find themselves using the old ones less frequently. By enjoying and getting used to having the benefits of the new platform they could grow increasingly frustrated by the limitations of the older ones.

As long as the perfect encrypted federated free software platform is at least as easy to join and use as the old one asking a friend to add one more app to their rotation wouldn't be putting a huge burden on them.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by withinboredom on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:36AM (#33381289)
Don’t even get me started with screen recording on a phone. At least on Apple if any Apple Music is playing that you don’t own the mp3 for, gets scrubbed out. I only know this from trying to make a cool thing for my son. I’m so tired of the nanny shit and wish I could just go back to android.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:56AM (#33381376)
> At least on Apple if any Apple Music is playing that you don’t own the mp3 for, gets scrubbed out.

Yeah. Next year I'll be reading about how the camera apps are detecting copyrighted content and refusing to take pictures too.

> wish I could just go back to android

Don't count on Android. Stakeholder lock down is increasing there too. Remote attestation is already a thing, soon we won't be able to run most apps if we "tamper" with the device by owning it.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by worthless-trash on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:03AM (#33382295)
> , soon we won't be able to run most apps if we "tamper" with the device by owning it.

Do you have any evidence of this ? I think samsung has done something with knox, but that is the only case I know of.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:26PM (#33386137)
Google's SafetyNet. It either has or will have support for hardware attestation. This can't be circumvented by software like Magisk.

Apps will insist that you run unmodified software. Bank apps will require attestation because of "fraud". WhatsApp will require attestation because of "terms of service". Streaming apps will require attestation because of "piracy". Games will require attestation because of "cheating". Every app in the Play Store will find a bullshit reason to require it and the result is we can't use their software if we own the machine, we have to let the corporation own it.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by everyone on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:07AM (#33382035)
Also its terrible for accessibility. Text can be manipulated and rendered in all sorts of ways. Tim Berners Lee is rolling in his grave!!
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by georgestrakhov on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:20AM (#33382095)
He is not dead yet. So at most rolling his eyes.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by dotancohen on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:58AM (#33382567)
He feels fine!
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by matheusmoreira on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:31PM (#33386187)
Yes, completely agree. The sibling comments already explained the technical limitations in detail so I just left it implict in my "lossy conversion" point.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by fivre on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:12AM (#33381180)
screenshots of text on twitter exist primarily because people still want to post long segments of text on a platform that explicitly disallows it. screenshots of text are worse than actual text in every way i can think of. they do not:

- allow clicking hyperlinks

- allow copying content to paste elsewhere

- adhere to device display preferences. you wanted dark mode? fuck you, my screenshot's black on white, dwi

- support screen readers. i loled hardcore at the other post suggesting twitter OCR them--i mean sure, as a practical matter, they should given the status quo, but YOU COULD HAVE JUST USED TEXT TO BEGIN WITH

- scale properly when zoomed in or out

- display all the text up front. virtually all of these require you click through each image because the thumbnail is cropped (if not too small to read anyway)

idk what reason you'd ever actually want to use them unless you desperately needed to show off the cool font you used. saying they're easily readable is like saying the abhorrent mandatory training videos featuring some extremely bored person reading a script over a static background for 30 minutes, with no option to speed up playback or fast-forward, are perfectly understandable. like, yeah, sure, they _are_, but also you could have provided a set of text bullet points about how not to violate USFCPA that any literate person could read in about 2 minutes and we'd all learn the same damn thing

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by sam0x17 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:31AM (#33381551)
> Technological progress doesn't mean making user-hostile design

Ok I want to copy paste one of the sentences he said to send to my friend but not the whole message. Oh wait

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by winternett on Saturday October 29, 2022 @09:39AM (#33383951)
A lot of accounts on Twitter screenshot text in order to circumvent notifications to the accounts they cite... This allows people to hijack content, and to arrange brigades without having a clear path back to the source of where they started.

One of the most important things for Elon to understand is that no matter how many programmatical measures are put into place to prevent abuse, there will always eventually be a workaround for people on a very public and open site. Protecting users and their content rights should be a goal of the platform as well, too many of these social sites see copycat behavior as fair game, and they reward people who steal and hijack content, that needs to be discouraged among several other bad social media behaviors.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by autoexec on Saturday October 29, 2022 @01:28AM (#33381254)
> Twitter is basically an internet scale public bathroom wall with everyone scrawling short hot takes onto the walls. The best case scenario has always been that it shut down and I hope we are one day closer to that eventuality.

I really don't see a problem with having an internet scale public bathroom wall for people to scrawl all over. Sure, Twitter is mostly spam and garbage, but so what? Every comment, however useless/offensive/entertaining/banal/silly/poetic/helpful/etc that isn't breaking the law isn't really a problem and no one is forcing you to read it.

I don't have much trouble ignoring Twitter entirely most of the time and the main issues I have with it aren't even about Twitter itself but with how people try to use it for things it is poorly suited for. It's the "journalists" who copy/paste tweets then call that an article I take issue with. Twitter is absolutely no place for presidential records, and shouldn't be the only place for any kind of important or official notification, or the only way to reach a company to get customer service.

There are certainty far better platforms for blogging, but lots of people like Twitter and find it useful. I don't see why Twitter should go away.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by JimDabell on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:00AM (#33381402)
He uses Twitter a lot. The previous CEO barely uses it. That alone gives him a massive advantage.
Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by riffraff on Saturday October 29, 2022 @02:06AM (#33381428)
But is his usage reflective of the majority of the users?

It's like saying that if you own a Lamborghini you can be a great manager at Lada.

Yeah maybe it helps a little but the vast majority of your decisions is still going to be determined by analysis on your users, not your experience.

Re:“Twitter will be forming a content moderation council wit... by ergocoder on Saturday October 29, 2022 @03:04PM (#33387006)
Many Twitter employees think Elon Musk can do better, especially with bolder decisions on obvious things. Source: several friends working there.

1. Spams and bots are rampant. Now I understand it's hard, but eliminating the obvious ones is not hard. A verified account impersonating people and selling crypto is just insane.

2. I used to ask for verification and get this. Twitter doesn't agree with verifying myself. What is this idiotic policy? I am myself.

3. People should allow to tweet as long as it's not illegal, especially from high profile accounts. Moderation might not go away, but it should be minimal.

My opinion is that, if twitter enables widespread verification where a lot more people can be verified, twitter's convo will get 10x better (e.g. now they can rank replies, people will act more reasonably).