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Re:Apple Q4/2022 by insane_dreamer on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:27PM (#33364842)
The most amazing to me is how Apple reversed its fortunes with the Mac. According to a quick search of Wikipedia (haven't checked further), Mac worldwide market share was 5.7% in 1996 (after years of decline). It then dropped out of the top 5 for the next 20 years -- the page doesn't give numbers other than top 5, but in 2006 Toshiba was #5 with 3.8% so it was below that. Not only did it manage to bring its share back to 1996 levels, but it's now at 9%. And that's worldwide -- US market share is probably larger.

I can't think of another company that has had such a stunning turnaround for a product line that was nearly headed the way of many other hardware vendors (some of whom made pretty good products, I had a NEC back in the day and it was a good machine).

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by pclmulqdq on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:40PM (#33364962)
What can't be emphasized enough here is how much Windows created this. They went from 95 and XP, some of the best operating systems from a user's perspective, to 7 (another hit), to now windows 10 and 11, which turn your device into a slow always-connected ad platform that you don't really control.

In other words, Windows became one of those toolbars that we all have to remove from our grandmothers' browsers.

For me, the answer was Linux, but for a lot of people who don't want to use a terminal daily, MacOS is the answer.

If you are a user, Windows hates you. MacOS doesn't.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by sgerenser on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:51PM (#33365078)
Most of Apples market share growth occurred in the Vista/7 era. Probably a bit more due to Windows 8, but overall Windows 10 probably had minimal effect. Most casual users and the press has been pretty positive on Win10.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by pishpash on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:34PM (#33365504)
You can tell all this revisionist history is written by people who did not experience it. Macbook market share grew among developers because it had a BSD shell and worked well with the web and mobile stacks of the mid- to late-2000's that were built on open source. Among non-developers it was an upsell from the success of other Apple products, especially upselling from the iPhone to the Macbook Air for which there was little hardware competition. User-facing parts of the operating system was not a reason in any of this.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by sgerenser on Thursday October 27, 2022 @09:04PM (#33366215)
Fully agree. Didn’t mean to imply that Apples growth was specifically due to Vista or Windows 7, just that it mostly occurred then and not as much in the Win10 era.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by xenonite on Tuesday November 08, 2022 @10:08AM (#33519792)
Both the BSD layer _and_ the polished interface let me switch to Mac OS X in 2004 as a developer. Trying to get a nice Linux GUI was too much of a time sink for me then.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by adamwk on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:51PM (#33365080)
You forgot Vista, the Wii U of Windows
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by bcatanzaro on Thursday October 27, 2022 @08:30PM (#33365977)
I always thought Windows ME was the Wii U of Windows.

Microsoft was expecting people to line up around the block and fork over $100 for Windows ME and everyone was just confused.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by abiloe on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:56PM (#33365137)
> They went from 95 and XP, some of the best operating systems from a user's perspective

I mean that's some rose-tinted shit if I ever heard it, 95 especially. 98 OSR2 improved quite a bit on the situation, but I don't recall having a great time with 95. It was still a glorified DOS extender in many ways, often slow to start up and shutdown, PC hardware and drivers were a mess and system stability therefore poor. This was right at the beginning of the concept of "PnP" in the PC world (plug and play) and it was a cruel joke most of time.

Windows 2000 being from the NT line was peak Windows in many ways. I resisted XP but it was ok for most people admittedly.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by r00fus on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:37PM (#33365532)
As someone who grew up with Apple computers, yes the overall fit/integration was not as good as Apple's but it did have some semblance of preemptive multitasking (which System7/8 did not have).

The "UI that runs on DOS" was a feature not a bug for legacy game/software support.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by lamontcg on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:25PM (#33365419)
> I mean that's some rose-tinted shit if I ever heard it,

I was trying to figure out how to express myself, but I think you got it.

98SE was still pretty bad because pre-NTFS filesystems would decay over time (of course so would ext2, but linux generally crashed a lot less).

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by insane_dreamer on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:20PM (#33377326)
XP, yes. 95, not so much.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by mkipper on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:58PM (#33365155)
I this overinflates the importance of the HN crowd a bit.

Yeah, a lot of software engineering types switched to MBPs because the OS isn't a steaming pile of garbage and it reliably works with the hardware. The former can't be said for Windows these days and the latter is generally hit-or-miss with Linux.

But I wouldn't be surprised if that's a rounding error when you're talking Macs doubling or tripling their market share. I'd imagine most people walking into an Apple Store in their local mall and buying a Mac with Apple Pay on their iPhone don't really know or care about the telemetry added in Windows 10. I still think Apple deserves the vast majority of the credit for the success of Mac.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by christophilus on Friday October 28, 2022 @07:02AM (#33369836)
They might not know about telemetry, but they probably recognize:

My Windows PC is slow, ad-ridden, buggy, and unpleasant. Also, the physical device feels cheap and the plastic is separating on the corner, and the hinge is broken.

Hey. Look at that super sleek aluminum MacBook there…

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by balls187 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:33PM (#33365487)
Apple's fortunes changed largely due to making the ipod PC compatible.

It was effectively the trojan horse of the Apple eco-system.

Secondarily it was due to Apple switching from PowerPC to Intel chips, allowing it to compete more broadly with support for Windows.

As an aside, Windows 10 is largely a pretty great operating system.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by alwillis on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:50PM (#33365648)
For me, the answer was Linux, but for a lot of people who don't want to use a terminal daily, MacOS is the answer.

Not only do I use the terminal daily, I live in the terminal on my Mac.

I consistently hear from Linux users they wished there was a terminal emulator as good as iTerm2 for Linux.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by RSHEPP on Thursday October 27, 2022 @08:40PM (#33366045)
Well kitty is pretty damn good if you want to give them a recommendation.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by civilized on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:34PM (#33364907)
Satya Nadella can pry my MacBook Pro from my cold, head hands.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by gopalv on Thursday October 27, 2022 @06:47PM (#33365034)
The worry is that the person prying it, rather gently, will be Tim Cook.

The only hedge against that is the ecosystem for phone & ipad development is still the macbooks - so it does hurt Apple to take away the ability to write your own apps on a Macbook.

I got a new ipad this week and it is pretty clear that 99% of my non-work life can be lived on it - banks, games and all the streaming apps. I don't have any more collections of DVDs, games or music.

Even writing/drawing is better on a device which I can pick up and sit in a chair to read like a printed document, now that usb-c lets me plug it into my existing setup for screens when I do need a bigger screen.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by TYPE_FASTER on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:31PM (#33365478)
Some of the Microsoft hardware form factors are interesting.

For example, the Surface Laptop Studio form factor in MBP form would be really nice.

I'd like to use the iPad form factor for managing photos and reading books. But when I've used an iPad, I usually end up wanting a keyboard, so I add one, then I realize I have a MBP that can't do as much.

So to me it makes sense to take a 13" MBP, add touch to the screen, and hinge the screen in such a way that it turns into a thick tablet.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by Reason077 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:03PM (#33365208)
According to rumours, Apple has been working on a touchscreen-enabled variant of macOS for the iPad, due for release in 2023.
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by snazz on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:28PM (#33365447)
Hasn't some variation on that rumor been going around for a long time?
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by chipotle_coyote on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:55PM (#33365681)
I haven't heard this particular incarnation until recently, but [cue spooky panicked voice] "the Mac and the iPad are merging, just you wait" has been something we've been warned about for a decade and counting. I've argued before that if Apple really planned to lock the Mac down to the same degree they have the iPad, it would have happened with the move to ARM-based CPUs and the macOS 11+ UX. The fact that that didn't happen strongly suggests that it's not on the roadmap. I stand by that. (I also stand by my contention that increased security making some things more difficult to do is not being locked down. My concerns about Apple's future directions have to do with services and advertising, but that, as they say, is another post.)

At any rate, never say never, but I would be surprised if Apple releases a version of macOS that runs on iPad hardware, even if it's running in a lab somewhere in Cupertino. I've been half-seriously predicting an entirely new operating system built around Swift and SwiftUI that replaces both iPadOS and macOS down the road, but I don't think that's in the near future -- and stuffing macOS on the iPad in the interim just seems implausible to me.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by Reason077 on Friday October 28, 2022 @12:28AM (#33367681)
The other part of the rumour is the 16” iPad Pro predicted for late 2023. Perhaps this “macOS lite” will be exclusive to that model?
Re:Apple Q4/2022 by orangecat on Friday October 28, 2022 @12:35AM (#33367723)
The only hedge against that is the ecosystem for phone & ipad development is still the macbooks

And there are any number of ways around that. "Developer mode" iPads that run Xcode and a Unix shell and that start at $5000, or a web development environment that does builds on Apple's servers, or just release the internal Windows/Linux Xcode versions that they almost certainly have.

Fortunately Macs are currently too profitable for them to kill, but that can change quickly.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by threeseed on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:27PM (#33365443)
Not sure Satya cares.

He is the one responsible for Azure and cares far more about Microsoft 365 and getting their services onto as many platforms as possible. So use your Mac long as you're using Word, Outlook, Teams etc.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by civilized on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:30PM (#33365467)
Makes a lot of sense.

I wonder how much money Microsoft could save if they simply maintained Windows with the minimum effort possible, instead of spending all this extra effort doing horrible things to it.

Re:Apple Q4/2022 by govg on Thursday October 27, 2022 @11:31PM (#33367314)
Maybe the current iteration of Windows is exactly that, extended life support and bare essentials while leeching revenue via ads.