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Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by vidarh on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:39AM (#33189019)
The point is all of that is optional. You can - and I have - written C to be executed on bare hardware with no initialisation code, and depending on your choice of libc you can still use it (though some functionality may not be available).
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by pjmlp on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:58AM (#33189449)
At which point it is no longer C, rather a programing language that vaguely resembles ISO C.
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by vidarh on Thursday October 13, 2022 @07:19AM (#33189559)
Of course it is still C. You've just opted not to use some of the functionality.

Nothing stops you from e.g. providing your own startup code which then calls the appropriate initialisation code either.

The point being that there's no enforced inversion of control in the sense used by the article, and so calling it a framework in the sense described by the article is meaningless.

Even if we postulated the inversion of control was there, the fact you can replace all parts of it still means it does not fit the article definition.

Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by pjmlp on Thursday October 13, 2022 @11:03AM (#33191996)
Not from the point of view of ISO C and the expected semantics of the abstract C machine.
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by vidarh on Thursday October 13, 2022 @11:33AM (#33192413)
If you were to write a program that relies on those aspects of the abstract C machine and don't provide those aspects, then you might have an argument, in that in that case the observable behaviour would be different, but if you choose not to make use of that functionality, its presence is entirely irrelevant.

This is also massively shifting goal posts. You first wrote "At which point it is no longer C". By your argument here, e.g. the Linux kernel is not written predominantly in C. But nobody uses the term that way. If you were to speak specifically about ISO C, maybe, but the person I replied to initially did not limit it to ISO C.

As such this is also entirely irrelevant to the original argument.

Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by pjmlp on Thursday October 13, 2022 @12:59PM (#33193664)
Everyone knows Linux is actually written in GCC C, and Google has burned lots of dollars making it work with clang, if it was proper C, that wouldn't never been an issue.
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by vidarh on Thursday October 13, 2022 @02:19PM (#33194553)
And yet almost everyone would still agree that "GCC C" is also C, so this is entirely irrelevant to what was being discussed.
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by pjmlp on Thursday October 13, 2022 @05:21PM (#33196647)
Yeah, that is why plenty people then show up on Stack Overflow with questions that prove how much they know C, versus "whatever my compiler did when I tried it out".
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by vidarh on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:25AM (#33200558)
And this has even less to do with what was being discussed.
Re:Using a Framework will harm the maintenance of your software by pjmlp on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:36AM (#33201063)
What was being discussed was that C without the CRT is a dialect of ISO C.