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Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by nonethewiser on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @04:42PM (#33168974)
> I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older.

1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse. 2. There is nothing wrong with your kids being in a majority demographic. It sounds like you're more worried about the world discriminating based off race and other traits.

I suspect you agree with all of this but it's a little scary how insidious these policies are. Even in your dissent you're seeing things from their perspective.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by PKop on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @05:49PM (#33169681)
It is always useful and prudent to see things from the perspective of those attacking you. "Know your enemy.."

You can argue over definitions and terms as much as you want, but the uniform you wear is often defined by your opposition. In other words, it may not be completely relevant what you or OP think diverse is or isn't. It is very relevant what the power structures and people implementing these policies think it means, no?

If someone has a kid that potentially is going to be quota'ed out of jobs or education, why wouldn't they worry about it?

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by nonethewiser on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:33AM (#33172885)
I don't mean they shouldn't worry. I mean they shouldn't use language that puts blame on their kid for not being "diverse" (which is also a non-sensical description of 1 person).
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by PKop on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @05:50AM (#33174783)
I'm sorry but you're just missing the point. You're taking the term literally, but it is very simple in practical terms how this actually plays out:

diverse is code word for non straight White male. Slightly more diverse would be straight White female.

Obviously OP is simply saying, as a White man, he worries his children through no fault of their own by virtue of birth would be excluded or limited by these cultural trends.

Blame on their kid? What sense does this make? He's blaming the system.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by giantg2 on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @06:07PM (#33169876)
"A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse."

There's a manager/HR somewhere saying "hold my beer"...

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by uup on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @08:27PM (#33171124)
A single person can be diverse relative to a group, though. Like a black woman would add diversity to a group of white men, for instance. When we talk about diversity in recruiting, usually we mean diversity of the candidate relative to the makeup of the company.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by massinstall on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @09:22PM (#33171555)
Optically maybe, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Just assuming that the “group of white men” are “all the same” is not very deep. The truth is that they’re all individuals with individual stories strangers who judge them by their looks know nothing about. It used to be understood as a good thing to not judge people based on their gender or skin color, including the nowadays declared “evil” white men.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by slt2021 on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @11:00PM (#33172249)
right words, but it is not what's happening in real world in hiring
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by nonethewiser on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:34AM (#33172894)
DIE initiatives achieve extremely poor diversity of beliefs. The type of diversity that matters. It is outright hostile to it.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by ParetoOptimal on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:53AM (#33175623)
> Optically maybe, if that’s what you’re aiming for. Just assuming that the “group of white men” are “all the same” is not very deep.

Not just optically. Even slightly different cultures can result in novel ways of thinking or world views that bring something new.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by randomdata on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @09:01AM (#33176290)
That's what the parent is saying. The aforementioned black woman may have more in common with the white men on the team than other white men. If you were striving for true diversity, it is quite possible that yet another white man with a different background would provide the greatest diversity, but if you are only optimizing for optical diversity then those considerations go out the window.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by ParetoOptimal on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @09:15AM (#33176472)
> aforementioned black woman may have more in common with the white men on the team than other white men.

Diverse viewpoints are more likely to arise from introducing 3 black women to a group of 3 white men than if you introduced 3 more white men.

> it is quite possible that yet another white man with a different background would provide the greatest diversity,

Are you and the parent really arguing white men are even better than black women at diversity?

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by randomdata on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @09:24AM (#33176587)
> Are you and the parent really arguing white men are even better than black women at diversity?

People with different backgrounds are "better" at diversity than people who look dissimilar, for sure. The wealthy black woman who went to school at Stanford alongside all the other white men on your team does not bring any meaningful difference in viewpoint. The tribesman from Kenya, on the other hand, comes with a very different outlook.

Of course, something akin to "Must be a US Citizen" is attached to most jobs because we don't actually care about diversity, just optics.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by chrismcb on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @11:33PM (#33172476)
"diversity of the candidate" doesnt make any sense. Or are you looking at the candidates ancestory and deciding what their diversity is? A single person isn't "diverse." I know some people are trying to change the meaning of "diverse"to mean "a minority."
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by mitthrowaway2 on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:17AM (#33173169)
> Like a black woman would add diversity to a group of white men

Yes or, for another example, an Israeli would add diversity to a group of Americans (of various colours).

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by allisdust on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:37AM (#33173278)
May be if they are all posing for a stock photo then yes. But how does it add diversity in a workplace. Assuming all the white men are from different countries.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by lupire on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:13AM (#33175792)
No, that person is different or divergent, not diverse. The group is diverse.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by datavirtue on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:23AM (#33175889)
What if the black woman is privileged, and went to a prestigious college all expenses paid by parents...you know, like most of the white men you meet in tech?

Meanwhile, the person who is self made (real diversity in this situation) and successfully bootstrapped themselves gets passed over because thier skin color is too bright.

Qualified diverse people are rare (no relation to skin color "diversity"). That is why everyone is cracked out over skin color and gender because there is an actual population of people that the HR secretariat pool can EASILY identify by just taking a glance. Thier mission, of course, is to please thier white male executives.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by bloak on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @06:05AM (#33174863)
> 1. A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse.

Compare and contrast with people saying "neurodiverse" when they mean "neurodivergent". I think there is general agreement that a single person should be described as "neurodivergent" rather than "neurodiverse". Some people say the wrong word just because the two words are so similar and are happy to be corrected.

On the other hand, if we're talking about other kinds of diversity then I don't think there's a similar pair of terms. "The addition of this gender-divergent person increases the gender-diversity of the team"? I don't think so!

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by lupire on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:12AM (#33175785)
"underrepresented" is pretty close to the word you need, but is a slightly miscast type.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by account42 on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @08:19AM (#33175851)
Well yeah, calling something divergent implies that there is a "normal". For ways of thinking and personalities people are fine with calling others not normal. For races and genders that is currently very not politically correct.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by philwelch on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @09:14AM (#33176456)
> A single person cannot be diverse or not diverse.

According to the plain old-fashioned definition, this is true. According to the modern political definition, “diverse” is approximately a synonym for “non-white”.