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Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by memish on Sunday October 02, 2022 @10:40AM (#33056225)
We have laws for separation of church and state, they should be applied to this as any other. This is a religion.

It's the same as any religious group trying to impose their morality and beliefs on everyone else. To be a good person use the correct words and correct ideas as defined by us, the good people. If you disagree you are a bad person. Sinful, evil.

How can you disagree with the Holy Words, Diversity, Inclusion and Equity? You're either with us or against us. Sign here on the dotted line to confirm membership.

http://paulgraham.com/heresy.html

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by pessimizer on Sunday October 02, 2022 @11:44AM (#33056916)
> We have laws for separation of church and state, they should be applied to this as any other. This is a religion.

I'd say this about any sort of psychological theories that get intertwined into the justifications of power structures. The government should not be speculating about or creating rules about people's inner states. A government trying to change the minds of the population undermines democracy. An administration, fine, but not the government itself, with regulations paid for with tax money.

People should change governments. Governments shouldn't change people.

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:12PM (#33057226)
Like most religious analogies in this area, I completely agree with it as a framework but don't really follow the conclusions. If it's a religion, surely part of living in a secular society is allowing people to practice it freely, even if that means that some conferences (or professors, or schools) adopt explicit creeds. I do worry, because I think this particular religion is factually wrong in ways that matter a lot, but the idea that academics should never let their core beliefs impact their work isn't really realistic.
Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by shellami on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:16PM (#33057975)
For the most part, DEI is groupthink but there are some that are so passionate you might describe that passion as religious fervor.

Ironically, DEI damages what are ostensibly its objectives.

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by fareesh on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:44PM (#33057633)
> the idea that academics should never let their core beliefs impact their work isn't really realistic.

I wanted to explore this a bit. Let's hypothesize that the academic is in some ISIL dominated region and the caliphate says that all research must further the goals of caliphate expansion and the spread of the religion. If an academic were to write an equivalent statement - is it their core belief, or are they simply saying the Emperor's clothes are beautiful?

Given the ideal role of academia in society, isn't the latter possibility quite harmful?

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:28PM (#33058126)
As Haidt says, it's harmful to the extent that it contradicts the core telos of academic research, but I don't think it's so harmful that research becomes impossible. Quite a lot of foundational scientific work comes from medieval Christian and Muslim sources whose religious authorities executed people for heresy.
Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by fareesh on Sunday October 02, 2022 @02:06PM (#33058559)
In terms of some outcomes, yes, the research can continue unhindered if they say "Hallowed are the Ori".

Personally I feel like it makes for a very poor work environment, so I sympathize with many who are put in that position. I would prefer it if they did not feel constrained by this type of environment, so that their best work would emerge.

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by montefischer on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:22PM (#33058041)
It would mean, however, that the state should not be explicitly backing the 'religion' in e.g. public universities, even though that's not the immediate issue at hand in the article.
Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by origin_path on Sunday October 02, 2022 @04:19PM (#33059798)
The current events aren't really new though. Universities have been getting steadily more left wing over time, and there's no clear waterline at which point it became 'religion'.

So this can easily be taken as an argument that governments should be divorced from academia. No grants, no student loans, no degree requirements in public sector jobs. Which would be fine, I think. The arguments for why governments should fund academia look very weak these days. It was supposed to be about long range research that the private sector wouldn't fund, but what we see in practice is the private sector funding ultra-long-range research like self driving cars, AI, etc whilst public funding gets guzzled by oceans of non-replicable P-hacked ideology driven pseudo-science. And as for education, well, researchers often don't make the best teachers anyway.

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by ethbr0 on Sunday October 02, 2022 @10:50AM (#33056332)
Private academic institutions (in the US-sense / not-government-funded) have no blanket obligation to separate from church, because they aren't the state.
Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by JumpCrisscross on Sunday October 02, 2022 @11:13AM (#33056587)
> Private academic institutions

I assume at least some of this research is funded with public grants. That might be from where pressure can be exerted.

Re:Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to qui... by origin_path on Sunday October 02, 2022 @04:16PM (#33059770)
I wonder how private universities really are, given the reliance on government backed loan structures and NSF grants.