Say Putin nukes Ukraine (or fires a "demonstration" shot). If NATO stood down and just abandoned Ukraine as a response, or had them do appeasement style relinquishment of territory, or lifted sanctions, what stops Putin from pulling the nukes out the next time he wants something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4
"Will you press the button if they invade West Berlin?"
Article 5
Quite evidently Ukrainians do not believe themselves to be Russian, are actively resisting Russian occupation, and will continue to until they fully push the incompetent Russian military off their land or Russia strikes a peace deal.
Ukrainian cities and apartment complexes have very much been struck by Russian cruise missiles and artillery. Russia has destroyed Ukrainian dams and power plants.
Truth be told, no one cares what you think in Russia. Ukrainians don’t see themselves as Russian, they see themselves as a separate people, and they will continue to be one since Russia is incapable of fielding a competent army.
If 16 or so HIMARS are so capable of destroying Russian ammo depots, why would the US be scared of Russia when they have 380 or so HIMARS in possession? Not to mention the US Air Force and Navy is so far beyond their Russian equivalents it’s like comparing an MMA fighter to a 5 year old child at karate for the first time. Russia hasn’t even deployed Su-57s or T-14s because they largely do not exist outside of useless prototypes. The US has 300+ F-35s and 180+ F-22s that are leaps and bounds better than anything Russia is flying, not to mention the fuck ton of F-15s and F-16s still in use.
And that’s just the USA. Fold the entirety of NATO into the equation and it’s obvious the Russian military does not hold the faintest thread to the US or NATO as a whole. Poland would crush Russia 1v1. The only thing Russia has going for it is nukes. Without them, it’s just a corrupt, broken, weak regional power. That’s really all it is with them.
Good Godwin: "Nazi! Nazi! Nazi!" You sounds exactly like a Q-Anon Trump supporter ranting and raving about how the Democrats are all Godless Pedophile Satan Worshipers. Do you also believe that too? If so, care to explain why godless people worship Satan? The same way a Jew can be democratically elected to lead a Nazi country?
https://jewishquarterly.com/articles/extract/2022/02/volodym...
>The Jewish Quarterly: VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY and the Jews of eastern Ukraine
>In 2019, shortly after being elected president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky met with representatives of the country’s religious communities. During his meeting with leaders of the Jewish community, one of the delegates – a rabbi – recounted to Zelensky the famous exchange in which Henry Kissinger told Golda Meir: “First I am an American, second I am secretary of state and third I am a Jew,” to which Meir responded: “Henry, you forget that in Israel we read from right to left.” The rabbi then added: “Don’t forget that the Jews of Ukraine also read from right to left.” Presumably, the rabbi was not merely trying to deliver a punchline but also a Golda-esque reminder to Zelensky that he – Ukraine’s new president – is not only a former comedian, but also Jewish.
Ukranian cities are absolutely being leveled by Russian munitions.
> or cut the Ukranian gas pipeline (which is the only source of reliable income for Ukraine for all 30 years of its existence).
The pipelines are the biggest source of money into Russia as well. Russia has tried to go around Ukraine with the NordStream2 pipeline, but NATO countries stalled that for years precisely because they didn't want to let Russia cut Ukraine out.
Oh now you're moving the goalposts and trying to redefine what you said and divert the discussion. But what you said of your own free will (or is somebody holding a gun to your head?) is up there in black and tan for everyone to read, and even if you ninja edit your own words, you've been quoted enough times that nobody's going to forget what you said.
Your claim that "you can't win otherwise" when you unilaterally attack a sovereign country actually means that you should not unilaterally attack a sovereign country, not that Putin didn't bomb Ukrainian cities. It doesn't prove your lie, it just proves how inhumane and aggressive you are.
If you can't win otherwise, then you should just fucking well lose, instead of unilaterally starting a war, bombing cities, and killing innocent civilians, then mendaciously lying about it, because you should not have attacked The Ukraine in the first place. Then you wouldn't need to lie about it, huh?
Your rebuttal that "The cities where the actual war is going on. Not all the cities..." is bullshit because Russia brought the war to them. The cities that PUTIN UNILATERALLY ATTACKED are being bombed. Not bombing some cities doesn't justify bombing others, or invading a sovereign nation.
Putin DID bomb Ukrainian cities. And you said he didn't. So you LIED. Not just a little white lie. A huge mendacious lie that attempts to justify and cover up war crimes. That makes you complicit.
>Ukranian cities are absolutely being leveled by Russian munitions.
It's at least interesting to see first hand how deeply delusional and deceived about reality so many Russian citizens act, that they could make such blatantly false easily disproven claims that fly in the face of the harsh undeniable reality and indisputable objective evidence that Putin has been bombing Ukrainian cities into the ground and mass murdering civilians.
It makes me wonder if they're willingly in on the lies and supporting and spreading them well knowing they're false out of a misguided sense of patriotism and loyalty to Putin (or simply fear and desperation?), the same way Trump supporters are LARPing by denying he lost the election and making contradictory claims like FBI planted evidence that Trump telepathically declassified anyway, when they know quite well that's a bald faced lie, or if they're actually as naive and gullible and easily deceived as they're acting.
Who do they actually think they're fooling by parroting ridiculous mendacious lies like "This is why we don't bomb Ukranian cities", if not only themselves?
Or they could be a paid troll? Most of their comment history consists of pro-Russian, anti-Western rants, with only a few tech-related things in between.
I find it hard to believe that everything we see is western propaganda. One of the reasons for this is that the Russian propagandists on TV proudly boast about committing genocide, are the Russian tv shows western propaganda now?.
Are the videos of the Russian tanks firing on fleeing civilians Western propaganda ?
Are the multiple independent reports that show Russia is committing atrocities such as raping and torturing adults and children in Ukraine western propaganda?.
Are the mass graves in multiple Ukrainian cities Western propaganda?.
Well, lots of them definitely are fake. Ukraine government had even to fire one of its propagandists because she started creating such an absurd fakes about rapes that nobody could believe this and it undermined the influence of Ukranian propaganda. Her name was Ludmila Denisova.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/09/update-chair-ind...
ill quote it for you.
"The Commission has documented cases in which children have been raped, tortured, and unlawfully confined. Children have also been killed and injured in indiscriminate attacks with explosive weapons. The exposure to repeated explosions, crimes, forced displacement and separation from family members deeply affected their well-being and mental health.".
You sure about that one ?
> This is why we don't bomb Ukranian cities
It is well documented. You did destroyed multiple Ukrainian cities. You did tortured and committed massacres. Your soldiers rape kids, women, old.
> We understand that they're people pumped by the Nazi propaganda to be used by the West to attack Russia, because NATO and/or USA are too afraid to attack Russia directly.
No you dont. The right wing neonazi groups are strong in Russia.
This simple fact, and what it tells about what Ukraine means to Russia, never gets to western ears for some reason.
Is your indefensible conspiracy theory that these are all deep faked videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvi7QFJYv_k
>Ukrainian cities bombed: Russian strikes spread from east to west
>Russian strikes hit the capital, Kyiv, and Kharkiv and Kramatorsk in the east, causing deaths, Ukrainian officials say. Missiles destroy an aircraft repair plant near the airport in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, Mayor Andriy Sadovy says.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e42F1V3AOq4
>Russia accused of using cluster bombs as fighting rages in Ukraine’s cities - BBC News
>Heavy fighting has taken place in several cities across Ukraine.
>Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second city, has seen some of the fiercest battles with Russian forces accused of using cluster munitions. Many civilians are reported to have been killed.
>Thousands more people have been trying to flee the country, adding to a growing refugee crisis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uuoo3wm69U
>Russia continues to shell newly-liberated city after Ukraine's counter-offensive – BBC News
>Ukraine's counter-offensive in the northern Kharkiv region has put the Kremlin on the back foot, Western analysts and politicians have said.
>This is said to explain President Vladimir Putin's mobilisation announcement, which could see 300,000 Russian’s summoned to serve in the war.
>The Ukrainian military is now trying to consolidate those recent gains.
>However, the city of Kupiansk, which was recently taken back from the Russians, is still coming under attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTgiVwRLx-g
>Russia intensifies bombardment of Ukrainian cities
>Russian forces are setting their sights on the capital city of Kyiv, advancing to the doorstep of the city. Satellite images show Russian artillery bombarding Kyiv as fierce fighting continues in many other parts of the country. Cities in eastern and southern Ukraine are under a sustained Russian onslaught.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-isnt-naive-zele...
>Russia bombs Ukraine cities, despite pledge to pull back from Kyiv
>MALA ROHAN/NEAR IRPIN, Ukraine, March 30 (Reuters) - Russian forces bombarded the outskirts of Kyiv and a besieged city in northern Ukraine on Wednesday after promising to reduce attacks there in what the West dismissed as a ploy by Moscow to stem its heavy losses and regroup for other offensives.
https://www.ft.com/content/e51014c3-0b97-4a3d-8a19-bc49b3ccd...
Russia steps up bombardment of Ukraine’s biggest cities
>Vladimir Putin’s forces adopt more aggressive tactics in bid to regain momentum on sixth day of invasion
>Russia stepped up its bombardment of Ukraine’s biggest cities, firing missiles on targets in populated areas as Vladimir Putin’s forces turned to more brutal military tactics in a bid to regain momentum on the sixth day of the invasion.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/russia-widens-...
>Russia widens attack with airstrikes on western Ukraine cities
>Airfields far from the main areas of war hit, while convoy near Kyiv seems to have dispersed into firing positions
Be aware there's full blown propaganda on both sides.
Both sides, huh? Is The Ukraine denying bombing Russian cities and causing many innocent civilian casualties, while at the same time actually bombing Russian cities and causing many innocent civilian casualties, just like Russia actually is?
It's not a conspiracy theory that Putin is openly threatening the first use of nuclear weapons, and both sides certainly aren't doing that.
So does your invalid whataboutism justify the fact that YOU yourself are knowingly spreading Russian propaganda?
Whining about how both sides are doing it would be a lot more justified if you weren't doing it yourself.
Edit: I never said I wasn't a propagandist, but you definitely are, since you're the one who's lying about Putin not bombing cities.
Notice how in your reply you STILL did not explain when bombing a city is not bombing a city, you just tried to divert and deflect and spread whataboutism.
We're discussing the bombings that really did happen, that you're denying happened, and the fact that you're lying about it.
So how do you justify deliberately bombing a shopping center?
War is war, deaths are deaths, but they do not come just like that. There's tension that builds up with time and what has the US done to ease that tension ?
Russia is saying plainly and repeatedly that they're not at war with Ukraine but with the US/NATO. Let's face reality.
"You're a propagandist while I'm not" is quite laughable I'm afraid.
You're absolutely right that war doesn't just happen. Putin made a conscious choice to invade a neighboring country, and one with which you'd had close ties at that, leading to all of this suffering and needless death. The only thing that isn't obvious here is whether you believe what you're saying or are intentionally spreading nonsense.
Why so ? Don't be so lazy.
Sorry to have confronted your bigoted certainties.
So you know, I fear much more the US's mad leaders than Putin.
Good day
What is your proof of your belief in that lie that's contradicted by so much evidence?
Since you're so concerned that proof Putin doesn't bomb Ukrainian cities never gets to Western ears, then speak up now and show us the facts that proved to you all those videos and eyewitness accounts we've all seen are fake, so it finally does get to Western ears.
Or do you just believe the lie that Putin doesn't bomb Ukrainian cities without any proof, just like how you believe all of your baseless Covid-19 conspiracy theories that you spread?