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Re:Dear Chess World by stouset on Monday September 26, 2022 @06:29PM (#32989432)
Niemann, as black, equalized reasonably early on and then had a consistent lead against Magnus the entire game. Magnus did make mistakes in the game, but only after a near-perfect grind for 27 moves.

To be clear, I'm not saying this to make a claim that this is definitive proof of anything. I'm pointing out that the theory that Magnus simply blundered away the game doesn't hold water. Niemann had the advantage—as black no less—for essentially the entire game against someone who is widely known for being capable of grinding away nearly-perfectly for extensive periods of time.

Re:Dear Chess World by tzs on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:30PM (#32989979)
On Hikaru's YouTube channel today he posted a video about today's developments [1]. In the later part of that video ran some software that used Stockfish to analyze that game and show percentage of moves where each player made the top engine move.

Magnus only matched the top engine move 43% of the time, which is quite low for a super-GM. Hikaru said he'd bet money that it was Magnus' worst performance in any game in the last 3 years.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ML2b7IdD4

Re:Dear Chess World by jquery on Monday September 26, 2022 @11:52PM (#32991390)
If Magnus was playing to detect cheating and not just to win, his play would reflect that. He did play some very obscure lines just to see if it would trigger Hans to “think” but Hans seemed to play the optimal moves quite easily every time. Analyzing the game myself, it appears Magnus was dragging out the game on purpose by picking highly dynamic lines of continuation that should’ve required long and heavy thinks from Hans.
Re:Dear Chess World by stale2002 on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @12:17AM (#32991513)
No, this is cope.

If the evidence shows that Magnus played badly, we do not have to jump to the conclusion that actually he was playing badly on purpose, for the intent of trying to detect a cheater. He himself wasn't even stupid enough to claim this.

No, instead, I am going to trust other grandmasters opinions that he was merely playing badly.

Re:Dear Chess World by jquery on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @12:49PM (#32997862)
Later in Hikaru’s stream he analyzed some of his own personal best games and one of them only got a 43% engine match score. So whatever the tool does, it does not conform exactly to ideas of whether a super GM played good or bad, at least not for any single game.

(Sorry for the dupe reply, too late to edit my other comment)

Re:Dear Chess World by systemvoltage on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:02PM (#32989747)
Gotham's analysis here is quite important at this time stamped link: https://youtu.be/pfqXnFNnDII?t=433

I agree but Magnus also plays bad games once in a while. So it is not quite clear from a sample size 1 and a std deviation of infinite.

Re:Dear Chess World by stouset on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:08PM (#32989812)
For sure! It's absolutely reasonable to believe that Hans beat Magnus completely fairly. It's also completely reasonable to believe there's a better-than-even chance that Hans cheated in this game.

There are a number of comments here which promote the idea that this is simply sour grapes by Magnus and totally uncalled for, and I find those perspectives to be overwhelmingly uncompelling.

Re:Dear Chess World by lmm on Monday September 26, 2022 @10:43PM (#32991065)
> Niemann, as black, equalized reasonably early on and then had a consistent lead against Magnus the entire game. Magnus did make mistakes in the game, but only after a near-perfect grind for 27 moves.

Of course he played near-perfectly for 27 moves. That's what it means to be a 2700 (or even a 2500, if you think his recent ratings growth is the product of cheating). Virtually any high-level game will look like that - the players playing mostly perfectly, with on average one or two significant mistakes, but sometimes not even that.

Re:Dear Chess World by Taek on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @01:04AM (#32991712)
Can we get concrete statistics on that? What does an actual 2700 game look like in terms of perfect move percentage? What about Hans?
Re:Dear Chess World by lmm on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @01:11AM (#32991749)
What I read was that Hans' average centipawn loss in that game looked completely normal, for him or for any GM at that level.
Re:Dear Chess World by 8note on Monday September 26, 2022 @07:18PM (#32989877)
27 moves being mostly opening prep?
Re:Dear Chess World by Taek on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @01:05AM (#32991717)
One of the chief complaints here is that it was an unusual line, specifically chosen by Magnus to be unlikely to have been explored during preparation.