That’s interesting advice that I haven’t seen out play that way in my experience. In very senior roles at big tech companies, even staying in the same role provides 0 guarantee you’re working on the same project or even that the project you start lasts 3 years.

Also, the difference isn’t 10k. It’s hundreds of thousands of dollars at middling levels. It’s in the seven figures at the upper levels.

From a job hopping POV, projects or roles don't count, it's all about how long you've worked at the same company. My current tenure at giant company X is "10 years", even though I've held at least 4 radically different roles across three different products during that time.

The context for my statement there was this:

> job hopping means you’re never really staying at a company long enough to establish yourself and to own the long-term consequences of your actions

If you’re project hopping then you’re not owning long-term consequences either.

I’m someone who stayed put. Same company for 7 years. Not fang. Got promoted to be a manager half way. I stayed put as it was awesome learning for me. I sucked my first year and yet felt was able to demonstrate value due to momentum from my previous impact. I am getting better at leadership and finding my skin.

But .. in retrospect, I left a lot of money on the table. I also don’t see myself making the next jump (to vp) as I have seen no one do it .. vps come from outside where I am.

I am mulling an mba or emba but it is pretty expensive in time and money.

Sounds like it's time to quit your job and find a new one.

Not with a recession looming, as the article points out. I’d be interested in upskilling suggestions that are smaller sized chunks.

Online nano degrees seem to be too watered down to take seriously. Need to position self for late 2023.

Even in a downturn, you should look for good opportunities to move. The second management job is where you really start learning.

But be really picky.

Just read the MBA/Founder books instead of getting an MBA. Find a new job where you'll be challenged and can put the MBA/Founder skills to use, then quit your current job.

> Once you reach the leadership and middle management roles, job hopping means you’re never really staying at a company long enough to establish yourself and to own the long-term consequences of your actions. It’s very easy to come in, make a mess, and then leave before any consequences catch up to you. It’s much harder to stay and own things for 3 year or more.

Isn't this what the top managers do? Seems to work for them.

I think this is overly dismissive. No one in a managerial role is switching jobs for a 10k signing bonus. Companies need to stop scratching their heads about why their talent keeps leaving and just fucking pay them more.

In Europe, its even a bit more. Early hopping is fine/explainable, I've personally only profited tremendously by doing it in first 6 years (increased my net income 20x compared to first full time job, but I started really low and and gradually moved to best paying region in Europe).

But even at those 5-6 years recruiters/hiring managers start to notice, you better have some good story to explain since they will ask. They do care much more if hopping is recent compared to 5-10 years ago. For more senior roles its simply a no-go, I mean think about it - it would be a net loss for the company to hire such a person, and if its obvious from the start why cause this to yourself.

Companies want stability, especially on senior level. If they change, they want to be in control of the change and not the opposite. Instable persons won't bring that, you don't need 30 years of management experience to realize this.

I'm actually experiencing this and feeling very down especially as a non-European targeting roles in Europe and remote roles.

My career trajectory after undergrad:

4 months: Project manager at a bank. Management development program that I left to join a startup in Berlin.

5 months, internship: promising startup in Berlin that I joined as intern. Founder passed away so the company almost went down under and they couldn't support me with visa.

1 year: Well-known German startup, notable turnkey projects. Left to home country due to family issues (closer to ageing relatives)

2 years 8 months: Rising Asian unicorn, notable turnkey projects, some good impact here. Left after a while to switch industry

3 months: Remote role at a US-based startup. Loved the time here and was actually able to scale a program. Laid-off along with half of the company due to investor pulling funds.

There are reasons behind every move. But this is not immediately evident to a recruiter and raises questions, more so in this market.

Now I'm job-searching while simultaneously freelance consulting on the side but as a generalist, non-tech, I'm somewhat jaded with job-hopping and want to aim for longer run at a stable company.

Senior level positions in Europe often come with a 6 month notice period, so it's not even really possible to job hob that often. There is a strong preference for stability and continuity of leadership.