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Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by lazide on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:44PM (#32975250)
Ok, but what does that actually mean?

The reality is, unless the Iranians themselves replace the Ayatollahs, it would require a foreign sponsored coup or outright invasion to meaningfully change the status quo there.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by mdibaiee on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:49PM (#32975300)
We are not asking for foreign countries to "replace the Ayatollahs" for us. What we are asking, is ending their diplomatic relations with this government, or at least severing it, instead of trying to strengthen their diplomatic relations.

A deal between this dictatorship and the west will only strengthen them, leading to more oppression. A weakened dictatorship due to foreign pressure will make it easier for the people of Iran to replace them.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by lazide on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:51PM (#32975323)
That’s already been happening for decades. Has it made any difference?
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by ghufran_syed on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:58PM (#32975390)
Well, there was pressure, until the Obama administration released $50 billion back to the regime https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/obama-didnt-give-iran-150-...
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by largepeepee on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:08PM (#32976252)
And economic pressure means nothing to a theocracy that governs over a poor population. That is in fact their bread and butter.

Look no further than Afghanistan to see how resilient they can be. They even withstood decades of occupation.

Hard power alone wouldn't have worked and who knows whether soft power could have worked either since there were so many saboteurs both internal and external like Saudis/Israeli lobbies killing the project in its infancy.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by Siira on Monday September 26, 2022 @01:37PM (#32985914)
The Islamic Republic is nothing like the Taliban. The Iranian population, especially around 10 years ago, was by no means “poor.” Iran has rich natural resources, very well-educated people (in STEM), and one of the oldest extant cultures of the world.
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by lazide on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:48PM (#32976675)
Eh, that reduced it but definitely didn’t release the pressure. Trump turned the screws down pretty tight in quick order too.
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by fny on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:01PM (#32975445)
Unfortunately, foreign governments only care about their own strategic interests, not Iranians. Do you forget who flew in Khomeini?
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by icare_1er on Sunday September 25, 2022 @06:39PM (#32977121)
Iranians are quite ambiguous about that. When there are no riots, they generally blame the West for sanctions, cutting banks out, etc, as it ultimately impacts the normal Joe on the street.

Yet, when there are riots, they blame the West for not sanctioning enough...

One thing I do not understand - and if journalists are reading this, I hope this gets picked up, is that many of the Iranian elite's sons and daughters are actually living in the US. They try to hide that from both the American public, and the Iranian one (complete hypocrisy).

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by Siira on Monday September 26, 2022 @01:40PM (#32985935)
We Iranians all know that. It’s you Westerners who don’t. You deny visas to PhD candidates, while giving green cards to terrorists without a fuss.
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by oliwary on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:18PM (#32976369)
I am genuinely curious - are there any historical examples where ending diplomatic relationships and imposing sanctions on a country has improved the situation for people living there?
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by weatherlite on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:39PM (#32976570)
South Africa
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by lazide on Tuesday September 27, 2022 @03:25PM (#32999923)
It's not clear how much of South Africa's Apartheid collapse was due to external pressure, and how much was from internal problems.

They had widespread and growing internal rebellion for a long time, with independent internal discussions and controversies going on about the unsustainability of Apartheid - both from a moral and economic perspective. Hell, they even tried Mandela for Treason in '56 and spent 27 years in prison after he started the revolutionary group in '61.

Apartheid didn't end until the early '90's.

Saying external sanctions caused it, is a bit like saying the USSR collapsed because of embargos.

They definitely weren't helping make it stay, but it's hard to say those where why it collapsed.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by panick21_ on Sunday September 25, 2022 @07:20PM (#32977486)
Economic sanctions mostly hurt the population and make the population less able to overthrow the government. Economic sanctions are known to strengthen the hardline elements. Its the hardline conservatives who can't deal with open economy.

Your arguments go against the research on this topic I have seen.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by JSfran on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:59AM (#33016980)
This hardline/moderate is a myth at least for last 15 years. However, the Iran lobbyist (e.g. NIAC) keep this narrative alive. Even in the 2000s era, the crack in the structure were minor. The so called moderator didn't had the motivation to really change anything substantial. It turns out they just wanted to use the people vote as a bargain to re-incorporate them into power (that fraction was in power in 80s but then kicked out). The regime is pure hardliner bcz this is a regime that the whole power has been consolidated under the hand of supreme leader (and this is why people in the streets called him dictator). The parliament/president and the election is just a joke! A show! They've re-define almost any word and void it from meaning.

The Supreme Ayatollah has a flexible user interface (UI) for the "West". When he wants to retreats: It wears the so called moderate president (Khatami, Rohani) and when the business is as usual he shows his teeth (Ahmadinejad, Raisi). The so called "president" is a joke. The last one (Raisi) has basically no self-agency, he is all ears for his leader and openly is proud about it! The previous ones weren't much different but at least they put up a show or a fuss when they told to do something. But this last one is perfect pawn (A soldier of leader as he puts it): "Sarbaze Velayat". The show was such a joke that in the last presidential selection: The supreme leader even eliminated his own long time friends and allies such as Larijani* and played Qalibaf to reduce the chance of any uncertainty (+). Note even with those eliminated in the run, it was still selection between potato vs potato...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Iranian_American_Coun...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Larijani

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Bagher_Ghalibaf

+ Uncertainty because previously people have tried to select the least favorable one for the grand Ayatollah, this time he didn't want to tolerate even that level of surprise! He has no fun!

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by amir734jj on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:47PM (#32975276)
It means: 1) publicly condemn the government 2) recognize that this government doesn't represent the people of Iran 3) don't give money to this government.
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by lazide on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:52PM (#32975334)
Anyone giving money to Iran already gets sanctioned by the US, no? And the gov’t is already pretty isolated, except for ‘persona non grata’ countries like North Korea or Russia anyway.

And I doubt those folks are going to change their mind over what’s going on.

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by JumpCrisscross on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:20PM (#32975670)
> already gets sanctioned by the US

Iran trades with Turkey, Pakistan, the U.A.E., Germany, India, Kuwait and Qatar [1].

[1] https://oec.world/en/profile/country/irn/?flowSelector1=flow...

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by MonkeyMalarky on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:55PM (#32975359)
I think point 3 is this, no?

>I am worried this tyrannical government succeeds in putting down this movement and then the western governments sign another nuclear treaty which means sanction relief and more money for the regime

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by case0x00 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:37PM (#32975919)
I do wonder on the feasibility of such events. I don't know a huge amount about pre-revolution Iran, but I don't think the Shah had an exceptionally powerful security force (I could be wrong). But now at least, the IRGC makes a revolution/coup very difficult.
Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by PraetorianGourd on Sunday September 25, 2022 @05:15PM (#32976337)
The Shah had a very powerful secret police, the SAVAK[1]. Prior to the overthrow of Mosaddegh, there wasn’t a comparable security force.. but I think something about gaining power in a coup makes one incredibly paranoid about being a victim of a coup.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by jokowueu on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:51PM (#32975330)
>would require a foreign sponsored coup

Won't be the first time

Re:Iran’s Internet Shutdown Hides a Deadly Crackdown by Alir3z4 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @04:55PM (#32976126)
> Ok, but what does that actually mean?

1. Sanctions: check

2. International isolation: ~check

3. freezing foreign assets: check

4. Bringing freedom to Iran by liberating them (successful operations like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, ....): LOL, never gonna happen