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Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bombcar on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:54AM (#32971363)
Progressive pricing exists for commercial users but in general has been too complicated for home users.
Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bob1029 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @10:06AM (#32971466)
I think we need to figure out how to de-complicate variable rates for residential customers. Forcing people to pay what electricity actually costs (ideally, in real-time) is a good way to make your demand-side much more responsive.

During the Texas winter crisis, virtually no residential customers saw a financial incentive to wind down power usage. Only those crazies on Griddy, et. al. were impacted.

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by gonzo on Sunday September 25, 2022 @01:42PM (#32973843)
During: true.

But most Texas utility customers now pay a surcharge every month to pay off the accumulated debt of that crisis.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2022/02/11/how-much...

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bombcar on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:52AM (#32972541)
Both in Texas and California recently lots of people voluntarily cut back but it’d be nice to reflect that in the billing in some way. The Griddy way may have been too extreme but encouraging conservation of energy is a generally good idea (imagine things like rebating permit fees based on sliding scale of how much you “beat code” on a blower door and insulation test).
Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by ab_testing on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:39PM (#32973085)
It is actually the opposite. In California, police attack your home if you are thrifty and use less energy. Apparently you are placed on some sort of suspicious list and accused of stealing power.

https://www.yahoo.com/video/senior-asian-couple-california-g....

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by Johnny555 on Sunday September 25, 2022 @03:35PM (#32975136)
Forcing people to pay what electricity actually costs (ideally, in real-time) is a good way to make your demand-side much more responsive.

That's only a valid strategy if your customers can be more responsive, but in a freak cold snap where most customers are running heaters at 100% to keep their homes habitable, there's little they can go to reduce demand.

Many people have purchased generators after that crisis, but telling (and maybe subsidizing) millions of people to buy a generator and stockpile fuel because the grid can't handle cold weather is not good energy policy.

It'd be better if regulators required demand-response automation that would let them intelligently scale back demand of high-energy appliances before the grid reaches critical levels without heavy-handed rolling blackouts.

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bitschubser_ on Sunday September 25, 2022 @09:59AM (#32971400)
just out of curiosity because I have no clue :D why is it regarded as complicated? For waste you already have a basic tarif + extra for every member in the household, and the "progression" is that you have to buy really expensive "waste bags" if you produce more waste
Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bombcar on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:40AM (#32972397)
Use more pay more is pretty simple and implemented - and the lowest tiers are really cheap.

The complicated one is daily tiers - when power is more or less expensive at different times.

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bitschubser_ on Sunday September 25, 2022 @11:57AM (#32972603)
are daily tiers and dynamic pricing really needed for consumers, shoudn't it even out on the long term? Until recently it worked quite well for a energy supplier to supply me with a fixed rate for a year and still making profit (when I take a look at their yearly earnings report, I think I also subsidized heavy users with my low usage :D). over a year the price should average out quite nicely when I look at the energy mix in germany and the cost. The only "problem" we currently have is the merit order principle and the pegging of the (haywire) gas price to the energy price which makes calculations for suppliers difficult (and the absence of building renewable, and the maintenance and shutoffs of nuclear :D). Aside from that consumption is quite foreseeable and production also, so daily rates should not matter that much? I think paying by the hour/daily makes things just more complicated, I actually don't really want to time my laundry cooking with future prices on an hour/daily base :D
Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bombcar on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:10PM (#32972769)
The goal with it is to encourage people to move load to coincide with demand. But it’s complicated and changes - during solar peaks the best time to do laundry may be midday but durning wind peaks that could be the middle of the night.

The solution is power storage either at a grid level or at a home level where the information is available to the smart batteries. And/or so much excess solar and wind that we just don’t care.

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by bitschubser_ on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:19PM (#32972869)
yeahh I see or just preload the washing machine and trigger it if the spupply is high .. but that means a lot of interconnected appliances.

I'm also planning to add one or two small 800Wp PV systems "Balkonsolar" to our flat (we have plenty of space on the south facing side) this will also involves pre planning for energy intensive stuff including a planned AC in the summer... let's see how this works out :)

Re:Europe is in danger of rolling electricity shortages by ryanhuff on Sunday September 25, 2022 @12:27PM (#32972957)
My utility (SCE in the US) has traditionally had consumption based progressive tiered pricing for years (monthly basis). Recently, they have been pushing consumers to time of use pricing though (higher rates at peak time of peak consumption). So, consumers can adapt.