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Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by Scoundreller on Friday September 23, 2022 @04:05PM (#32956426)
Ontario Canada did a mass $2b implementation of smart meters for time of day pricing.

Unfortunately most people don’t care (or the technology to take advantage of it just isn’t there), and demand shifted less than 1% over several years.

But it’s hard to find this info, because it doesn’t fit the (expensive to implement) narrative of “let them pay market price and people will respond to incentives”.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/smart-meters-hydro-bi...

> The Environmental Commissioner of Ontario's 2015-16 Energy Conservation Progress Report found "a 0.7 per cent reduction in peak demand among residential customers" attributed to time-of-use pricing over a four-year period.

I mean, people keep their foot on the gas when the light ahead is red and sometimes even speed up to get ahead of you only to slam on their brakes.

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by Marsymars on Friday September 23, 2022 @06:12PM (#32957720)
The pricing model isn't appropriate to make people care.

What they could do instead of time-of-use pricing is a sliding multiplier that multiplies your total bill based on the ratio of on-peak to off-peak use. Make the multiplier worse based on what the total usage is.

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by fsckboy on Friday September 23, 2022 @07:13PM (#32958169)
you'll win a Nobel prize in econ if you can prove "The pricing model isn't appropriate to make people care"
Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by yazaddaruvala on Friday September 23, 2022 @07:40PM (#32958366)
I wouldn't judge this framework on a few year time horizon, but the time horizon to migrate to 100% EV fleet for Ontario.

The problem with 100% EV fleet a regular grid will be overloaded and customer's will not be incentivized to care.

This framework future proofs the Ontario grid from such a "wall".

Now that the framework exists in Ontario, prices at certain times in the day can grow 10x, 100x, 1000x where appropriate and people will care and will change their behaviors.

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by discretion22 on Friday September 23, 2022 @08:24PM (#32958649)
If time of use had even a 10x premium, people in Ontario would simply switch to simple tiered pricing which is available as an alternative to time of use pricing. Each Ontario electricity company is required to show you which would be cheaper for you and allow you to switch to the cheaper tariff to obtain cost savings.
Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by yazaddaruvala on Monday September 26, 2022 @01:20PM (#32985708)
Got it, so then Ontario has good hardware and no incentives. Everywhere else has no hardware and no incentives. Still one step better for Ontario.

If/When the Ontario grid starts to feel the pressure of EVs, it is a choice between (No Electricity + Tiered Pricing) XOR (Electricity + 10x premium Time of Use Pricing).

I have a feeling everyone will complain but understand that the only option was to keep the grid running.

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by pas on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:57PM (#32957603)
they can afford not to care. this doesn't mean it's not a good solution.

it's no surprise the general population in one of the richest regions on Earth doesn't immediately change their consumption habits when a small fraction of their monthly bill gets variable

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by Scoundreller on Friday September 23, 2022 @07:25PM (#32958245)
It’s not a good solution when you spend a ton of money to force people to pay the averaged out market prices per time segment and they still don’t care.

It’s like making me spend $$$ to measure and charge me for how much co2 I exhale.

It’s technically correct: that co2 does contribute to global warming.

But it’s going to cost more to meter it than I could possibly save in conservation through this newfound incentive.

Re:Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study by pas on Saturday September 24, 2022 @04:01PM (#32966092)
it depends on the capacity premium

for example bandwidth used to be 95th percentile priced, but Netflix quickly run into problems because its peers did not want to upgrade linecards, switches, etc. (and as some of those peers were also in the media disturbution business they explicitly wanted to keep those ports maxed out)

the point is that if the network provides a close to constant capacity, then of course it makes no sense to try to price on that.

but with more and more variable supply it seems prudent to prepare the demand side too.

in Norway currently electricity prices fluctuate like crazy, and the supplier sends an email each day about the prices for the next day (though I'm not sure how guaranteed those are, of course the current price is also online)

and it varies regionally too