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Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Macha on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @08:09PM (#32845249)
I've seen a few people in the US mention "when the chip isn't working". I don't think I've encountered this... ever? Of course, when the merchant's only alternative is handling cash, maybe there's more incentive to keep the card machine in order
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by mindcrime on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @10:08PM (#32846163)
At best I've found chip reading to work about 60% of the time across a range of local merchants here. And now the debit card I have, which is less than a year old, has a chip which has completely quit working. Making it totally useless for the (thankfully small) number of merchants whose POS systems won't let you fall back to mag-stripe when the chip fails.

As far as I'm concerned, chip cards can get stuffed. They're utter shit in my experience.

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Semaphor on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @10:49PM (#32846376)
That sounds like you are somehow mistreating them, or your local merchants use "special" terminals (or maybe your bank is just using crappy materials). I can’t even remember how long ago it was that swiping worked, but chips have never broken until I cut them for the replacement card, this is over 3 different banks.
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by mindcrime on Thursday September 15, 2022 @07:27AM (#32850139)
That sounds like you are somehow mistreating them,

I don't think I am. All I do is take it out of my wallet, put in the reader, take it out, put it back in my wallet, lather, rinse, repeat.

or your local merchants use "special" terminals

That would make sense if we were talking about one merchant, or even just two. But I can go to Barnes & Noble, Lowes, Food Lion, the local corner gas station, Ace Hardware, it doesn't matter, I routinely find the chip readers less reliable than the magstripe reader. I can't explain it, but chips are tainted in my worldview at this point.

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Reason077 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @02:45AM (#32847995)
> "At best I've found chip reading to work about 60% of the time ... Making it totally useless for the (thankfully small) number of merchants whose POS systems won't let you fall back to mag-stripe"

Here in the UK, many (most?) new payment terminals don't have mag-stripe readers at all. And I expect banks will start issuing new cards without a magnetic strip in the near future, if they haven't done so already.

I agree that chip & pin isn't ideal, not just because of reliability issues but also because of the security risk of PIN disclosure. But thankfully contactless (incl. Apple Pay/Android Pay) has already replaced it for 99% of daily transactions.

But if your card's chip is broken, can't you just get your bank to send out a new one?

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by mindcrime on Thursday September 15, 2022 @07:30AM (#32850163)
But if your card's chip is broken, can't you just get your bank to send out a new one?

Of course I can. But that means I have to stop and take time out of my day to call my bank and dick around with them. And then if the new card comes with a new number (I don't know if it will or not), and/or expiration date (that almost certainly will change), then I have to login to EVERY SINGLE ONE of the places online where I use that card for some kind of automatic payment and change the payment details. I'm extremely loathe to do that, because it's incredibly tedious and painful, and I always miss one anyway and wind up getting scary emails about how my account is about to be closed.

Sure, my hand will probably be forced on this sooner or later. But as it stands, I just haven't cared enough to deal with all of that.

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Reason077 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @11:10AM (#32853213)
It might depend on your bank, but if you request it, it should be possible for them to issue a new card on the same account without cancelling the old card.

Your new card will have a new number and expiry date, but the old one will remain valid.

In any case, these days my web browser remembers card numbers and fills them in automatically, so it’s really not such a big deal to update card numbers online.

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by mindcrime on Thursday September 15, 2022 @02:19PM (#32856222)
It might depend on your bank, but if you request it, it should be possible for them to issue a new card on the same account without cancelling the old card.

That's a good point. I guess I should call them and see if that's an option. If so, that sounds like the best of both worlds.

I could also buy a phone that has NFC / tap to pay support, and link my card to Google Wallet and use that. An awful lot of the place I shop support that these days...

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by ridgered4 on Thursday September 15, 2022 @08:46AM (#32850981)
I had a similar experience, but a clerk at a gas station wiped the chip edge of the card down and it worked on reinsertion. No idea how not really visible dirty (maybe from my very old wallet) was contributing to chip read failures but I have a much higher success rate after copying this fix.
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by adventured on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @09:05PM (#32845697)
When it comes to dipping the chip, it can wear down after a lot of use and stop functioning. I've never run into a problem with tapping however.

Here's an example image from a NY Times story about chips wearing down:

https://i.imgur.com/XlKEBsc.jpg

The last card I replaced due to chip wear, the chip looked even worse than that.

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by ThePowerOfFuet on Friday September 16, 2022 @02:24AM (#32862769)
That is a totally acceptable amount of wear.
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by giantg2 on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @08:30PM (#32845423)
I have chip malfunctions at least once per month. I assume there is dirt or debris in the terminal or on the chip.
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Macha on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @08:49PM (#32845573)
I find it odd that they're so unreliable in the US given they're neither new nor complicated technology and have a decade of use in Europe before they even started gaining adoption in the US, but I'll take your word for it. I wonder what US card or terminal manufacturers are doing wrong for such a reliability difference
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by Reason077 on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @09:10PM (#32845730)
Chip payments occasionally had problems in Europe too. The chips on the cards, or the contacts on the terminals would get dirty or wear out or whatever. Contactless is much more reliable.
Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by girvo on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @09:06PM (#32845705)
That's wild. We've had chips on our cards in Australia for gosh-knows how long at this point, and I honestly cannot remember the last time it failed.

Not that they're even used that often these days either: everything is just tap-and-go NFC payment now.

And I do mean everything!

Re:Crazy Thin ‘Deep Insert’ ATM Skimmers by mrguyorama on Thursday September 15, 2022 @01:26PM (#32855431)
Remember that the US is huge, diverse, and opinionated, and really struggles to realize "My experience isn't everyone's experience"

I've had the chip struggle like once in my life. That was on a card very near it's expiration date. Most people I see in the store have no problems with their payment method, and when I was a cashier in 2012, people seemed to have significantly more problems getting their magstripes to scan.

All of this is SUPER dependent on which flavor/brand of POS is popular around you, the effort your bank put into making a good implementation, and whether your local merchants actually put effort into running their business and keeping equipment maintained. Pretty much nothing in this discussion is generalizeable to all of the US other than "We were late to the party of chip cards"