Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by encoderer on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:32PM
(#32839570)
Counter-point is that when a customer reports a problem I don’t want to have to say “can you try that again after I enable logging”.
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Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by jedberg on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:34PM
(#32839589)
When a customer reports a problem the first thing I try is to reproduce it (with logging on). If I can't reproduce it, does it matter? I can leave logging on and let them know I can't reproduce their problem but if it happens again to let me know.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by encoderer on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:36PM
(#32839619)
In your background of consumer engineering, yes it probably does not matter. But it’s not the same in SaaS
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by jedberg on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:42PM
(#32839699)
I've worked in SaaS for years, and I don't have any examples in my history where that's the case. Do you have an example of a case where historical logging was the only way to track down a problem?
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by encoderer on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @01:06PM
(#32840066)
Yesterday I used logs to help a customer who had mis-configured their SAML SSO (the problem was on the IdP side). I use our database audit trail logs to understand the sequence of changes a customer makes that sometimes results in behavior that is surprising if you only look at the current state.
We put a big emphasis on the second S in SaaS and we want a magical 1-email support experience whenever possible. Audit logs help this.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by staticassertion on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @01:00PM
(#32839980)
When do you turn the logs back off?
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by jedberg on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @01:05PM
(#32840043)
When the problem is verified solved.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by staticassertion on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @01:05PM
(#32840059)
I can't imagine the logs are off very much of the time then
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by jedberg on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @01:15PM
(#32840185)
Well when you have microservices, hopefully only one or two of them need logging at a given time.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by carlmr on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:34PM
(#32839601)
Exactly. Also sometimes you discover some issue and you want to see if this is never happened before, sometimes, often?
Depends really how long your customers can wait.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by jedberg on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:35PM
(#32839612)
Logging is different than metrics. Metrics should tell you if a problem has happened in the past.
Re:Think Prometheus, but for logs (not metrics). Simple, eff...
by macspoofing on Wednesday September 14, 2022 @12:36PM
(#32839630)
You may have to. Debug logging can be very expensive to simply leave on in production.