News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by PragmaticPulp on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:21AM (#32775263)
> Every couple of months one of his friends will get banned for no reason.

I know you want to trust your child’s friends, but “it happened for no reason” is exactly what kids say when they don’t want to own up to the consequences of their actions. Obviously, you can only monitor your own child’s gameplay and not what their friends are doing on their own time. I strongly suspect there’s more going on than you realize.

> It literally is as easy as fill out the form, user is automatically banned, no verification required. Microsoft is not actually enforcing anything.

I highly doubt this. The Minecraft FAQ has this to say about it:

> Will I get banned without my case being reviewed by a human?

> No. Our team of human moderators handle player reports. This team is dedicated to Minecraft, and familiar with the community, platform, and lore. Our team reviews every report before any action is taken.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by fxtentacle on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:47AM (#32776085)
I have a group of 30+ friends who play minecraft, use a separate TeamSpeak server and they also regularly talk about getting banned without obvious reason.

And I was once banned from Dota2 for "intentional feeding" which I guess is just a fancy way of saying that the others in my team expected my skill level to be higher than it was.

These online ban systems really are random. And typically the "moderation" is fully automated. I predict soon GPT3 will write the message to inform you.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by bathory on Friday September 09, 2022 @06:21AM (#32777507)
I have spent more than 10’000 hours in DotA 2. You do not get banned for a single game no matter how bad you perform.

It has to be on a very regular basis, and even then you probably first get put into low priority matchmaking as your behavior score drops. Banning accounts usually only applies to cheats or buying and selling accounts.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by fxtentacle on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:15PM (#32783623)
You are technically correct. I got limited into a different matchmaking system than my friends. But the end result was that I couldn't play with them anymore.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by simion314 on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:05AM (#32775517)
My son was banned by Sony for 2 months, there were a few things Sony did wrong so they are now on my shit list

1 the bastards did not send me the parent any detaisl about the ban, just a extremely vague reason so I have to guess all possible reasons (maybe chat, maybe screenshots shared in chat, maybe Sony devs fucked up with native languages, maybe my son tells the truth and it was that guy that demanded Fortnite gifts otherwise they will report them and get them banned

2 Sony did not let me appeal, or ask for details, fuck you Sony, you lost a customer

3 at that time I had a 12 months subscription that is required for online play, so the banning robbed me for 2 months subscriptions.

IMO, I believe my son , that it was a troll, Sony lost a customer , they could avoided this if they could show me exactly the "crime", I could then educate my son if he used some "bad word" (we are not native speackers so he might not know that some word is dangerous, soem can use it but if you get reported you are screwed)

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by JetAlone on Friday September 09, 2022 @05:05AM (#32777049)
Good for you. Corps that walk all over us should keep losing their customers, and we should support the little guys to the best of our abilities.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by causalmodels on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:38AM (#32775355)
> I highly doubt this. The Minecraft FAQ has this to say about it:

This level of naïvety is somewhat endearing.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by RUN12 on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:49AM (#32775421)
And yet far less naive than believing a group of 10 year-olds are being repeatedly banned for no reason with their chat off, instead of the obvious that when parents aren't looking they're being abusive to others in chat.

Reminds me of the classic:

> No, I wasn't looking at dirty websites, it was a virus!

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by causalmodels on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:52AM (#32775445)
Can you name a single moderation system that operates on this scale that will not automatically ban someone for getting mass reported? This is a fairly well known phenomenon.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by RUN12 on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:11AM (#32775550)
That's obviously not what's happening here though. I have plenty of adult friends who go on public and private servers and actively trash talk during games and have never been banned. And none of their friends have been banned. A small group of 10 year-old children aren't having a coordinated attack of hundreds to thousands of reports against them repeatedly over many months.

Not to mention tacking on the requirement that instead of a bunch of 10 year-old children being - as they tend to be - offensive/testing limits when adults aren't looking, Microsoft is publicly lying to their customers (creating liability) and implementing an automated system so poor it doesn't so much as check if the reported user even uses chat.

EDIT: To further substantiate what I'm saying, I just checked and you cannot submit a report without selecting the specific messages that relate to it. The UX requires that the individual messages are selected and cannot be submitted empty. The parent is at least being misled in thinking their child or their friends don't use the chat feature.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by Aeolun on Friday September 09, 2022 @07:07AM (#32777766)
> A small group of 10 year-old children aren't having a coordinated attack of hundreds to thousands of reports against them repeatedly over many months.

You know they are likely playing with a large group of other 10 year old children right? There’s going to be at least a few amongst them that just think it’s fun to mass report everyone that says anything marginally inappropriate.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by throwaway290 on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:35AM (#32776419)
Imagine you buy a Monopoly, D&D or MtG set. You don't have room to play it at home so your child goes to a game cafe to play it with friends. A sex offender is trying to cozy up to them. Who would you blame for that, Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast? Is allowing them to confiscate a game set (or cripple it so it can't be played with other people) the right solution?

As a side effect, if you or your child are a bit inconsiderate during a tense moment of the game and someone gets mad back, with a press of the button they can block you from ever playing by reporting select words to game publisher. You will not be entitled to refund. Would you say that if this was not abused in a couple of months then it's definitely OK and we shouldn't worry about it?

Minecraft was sold as a game set. There are paid official places you can go play it now, but buying the game set does not require you to use them. Do not mistake it with Roblox, that one is both a game cafe and a game set.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by fxtentacle on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:57AM (#32776135)
having your internet connection disconnect is also a ban-able offense ...
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by sgjohnson on Friday September 09, 2022 @05:21AM (#32777176)
Perhaps the server you’re playing on has a plugin that disables chat reporting?
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by boredpudding on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:45AM (#32776487)
In this case, the reports need to include messages by the person who is being reported. This is verified with private/public keys.

To be mass reported, you need to be on a server with all the people who want to report you.

Honestly, Mojang built this system well, and seeing Hacker News full of assumptions is really disappointing.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by capitainenemo on Friday September 09, 2022 @09:53AM (#32779255)
People are recounting actual real instances of abuse. Both here and youtube creators. And it seems pretty plausible. This is basically enabling online bullying and lynch mobs. You only have to join one negative server to get banned from everything everywhere. I think this would be more forgiveable if it was an autoban from the place you were misbehaving, or if the bans were default limited in length without a detailed appeal process involving the person whose account was being stolen servers could opt out of the ban process so at least you could still play with friends at home.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by PurpleRamen on Friday September 09, 2022 @06:22AM (#32777512)
If a company is repeatedly banning 10 years old without explanation, in a game where they know that 10 years old are common, then obviously the company is at fault. Kids are not adults, they are not responsible for their fails, and they can't learn without explanation. It doesn't matter whether they did something ban-worthy, they are kids..
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by watwut on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:10AM (#32775855)
Having experience with all of following three: kids, minecraft online, kids playing minecraft online, no. If someone get banned unfairly with such frequency, they are either super extraordinary unlucky or just some of those kids do mess and trolling on the side.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by vintermann on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:33AM (#32776005)
Sure. But the kids getting banned may not be the kids doing the messing and trolling on the side.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by watwut on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:29AM (#32776375)
The most plausible scenario is that they are. It is not like it would be difficult or required special knowledge to open minecraft and play with the chat on. 10 years old are fully capable of playing without chat with one friends group and with chat an hour later.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by vintermann on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:52AM (#32776536)
A 10 year old can easily outsmart a cororation's bureaucratic, mostly automated chat reporting system. And once they have, yeah, fake reports will probably outnumber the real ones.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by watwut on Friday September 09, 2022 @10:41AM (#32779830)
Genuinely, nah. They are not that smart. Kids are not dumb either, but their are not sophisticated at all. They can lie, but very very few of them in any sophisticated way.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by indrora on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:05PM (#32782789)
I can say the faq is a lie right now.

I had a spare minecraft account I migrated a while back. As an experiment, I had three friends of mine report the account for profanity. Any text field that could be filled was filled only with garbage or the name of the account

This is an account that hadn't logged on since verifying that the account got moved over, and that was long before the global moderation tools were made.

Within the hour, it was banned. When I tried getting to support, I gave up.

They are not using humans.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by Underphil on Friday September 09, 2022 @12:47AM (#32775407)
Do you play Minecraft? If so, drop your username right in here and we'll happily test that watertight FAQ for you.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by d-trieu on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:26AM (#32775939)
Sure, go ahead. My ingame nickname is Dat12.
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by FPGAhacker on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:29AM (#32775966)
Underphil Aphqt
Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by rieTohgh6 on Friday September 09, 2022 @05:57AM (#32777354)
> Our team of human moderators handle player reports.

I have exactly 0 trust in such statements after Amazon's "New world" fiasco. I mean, it technically might be processed by human, hired from 3rd world country and paid next to nothing but it doesn't change the result: large number of reports was enough to ban people, no one check if those reports made any sense. Nor if they were all made by enemy clan.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by curiousgal on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:12AM (#32775554)
> what kids say when they don’t want to own up to the consequences of their actions.

Oof. They're kids. Cursing here and there is not the end of the world.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by RUN12 on Friday September 09, 2022 @01:22AM (#32775601)
Minecraft does not ban users for profanity. The list of ban offenses is currently:

Hate speech, sexual content and soliciting improper contact, real life threats, exposing the personal information of others, posting links to malicious software, impersonating staff, cheating/exploits (this includes anything that would negatively affect another person’s gameplay experience), general commercial spamming

Profanity is considered the responsibility of specific server moderators since it's a low-level offense that's virtually impossible to police in a game like Minecraft. They're trying to avoid the notoriety recently obtained by Roblox for being a place for adults to exploit children.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by neiman on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:39AM (#32776041)
> Minecraft does not ban users for profanity. The list of ban offenses is currently:

Are you quoting reality of a FAQ? I don't believe the FAQ rules of Microsoft much more than I believe 10 years old kids.

Re:It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play ar... by Aeolun on Friday September 09, 2022 @07:11AM (#32777789)
> impersonating staff

If my own experience years ago is any indication, this would create so many ban options it’s not funny. 10 year olds love pretending to be more than they are.