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Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by abdullahkhalids on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @08:26PM (#32744896)
Let's try to define power here.

* There is the power for some central entity to control the levers on the money supply: determine how much money gets printed, what the interest rate is, what sort of inflation rate is acceptable etc.

* There is the oligoplic power of banks which determine who gets to have a bank account, how much and at what rate credit is available to which people, what sort of money transfers are acceptable.

* There is the political power that people with lots of money command. They determine who gets elected, which laws are passed, whether they can be prosecuted or not, whose life they can destroy on whim etc.

I think Satoshi's original conception might have been to democratize the first two kinds of power. Early cryptocurrency idealist probably dreamed of getting rid of all three types of power.

I think right now, only the first one is indeed getting democratized in the sense that people can choose to "support" the cryptocurrency which they like. This is true for both PoS and PoW.

With the rise of regulated cryptoexchanges owned by rich people, the second type of power continues to be centralized in both PoS and PoW. And of course, there was very little threat of the third type of power ever being challenged by cryptocurrency - that's a property of our political systems, not of the type of money we use.

Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @08:36PM (#32744978)
Bitcoin doesn't require centralised exchanges to function, though. It's not fundamental to the coin. Is the etherium PoS centralisation required?
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by idiotsecant on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @08:48PM (#32745073)
Neither Bitcoin or Ethereum require a centralized exchange. What are you trying to ask her?
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @09:07PM (#32745209)
For them to elaborate on their claim of equivalency between PoS and PoW centralisation, given the exchange centralisation isn't actually an issue.

To me, it would seem that the ETH PoS centralisation of power (to the already wealthy) makes it less free than, for example, BTC. But I don't know, and I'd like to hear what they think. You too, if you'd like to offer your thoughts.

Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by Kbelicius on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:12AM (#32746588)
> To me, it would seem that the ETH PoS centralisation of power (to the already wealthy) makes it less free than, for example, BTC.

BTC also suffers from centralization of power to the already wealthy so the claim that that there is equivalency between PoS and PoW centralization sound about right.

Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:23AM (#32746672)
How so? I legitimately don't understand. With BTC, it's the same for everyone. Everyone can run a node. No ones node is special. Best wealth can do is buy miners to mine more coins. But that doesnt grant you more power, just more wealth. In PoS ETH, you need 32 Eth to participate. Thats 50k USD just to participate in validation.

BTC is free and you don't need any money to run a node. For ETH, you need 50k USD to do the same thing, no?

Genuinely curious here.

Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by htkibar on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:48AM (#32746826)
If you don’t run an ASIC, your hash rate is so minuscule that it won’t matter (in the case of BTC).

Cost of an ASIC is around the same ballpark if not more.

Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:42AM (#32750488)
That's just for mining, though. I can be part of the validation/consensus process for the BTC blockchain by running a node which you can run on anything with a 500gb hard drive. People use Pi's to do it. You need zero bitcoin to run a node. This is the difference.
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by zaarn on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @10:31AM (#32751125)
You can still run a node on ethereum for free? You aren't required to be a validator to run a node?
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @12:28PM (#32752753)
Yes, but power in ETH PoS comes from the validation/staking. It's value comes from the validators consensus, no? Which you cant do without money. Or am I wrong? I'm trying to decide if I should get on board or not. If this isnt true, what is the point of staking?
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by idiotsecant on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @11:29PM (#32760821)
You're not understanding how ETH works. You can run a node for free, just like you can in BTC. In either case you aren't contributing to consensus, just the propagation of network information. IF you want to contribute to BTC consensus meaningfully you need some extremely expensive specialized hardware and power to run it. If you want to contribute to ETH you need a big pile of money. It's the same thing, just with extra steps in the case of BTC. Unfortunately in BTC those extra steps also consume enormous amounts of energy, which has a real-world environmental cost. There's basically no reason as far as I can tell to prefer requiring people to buy ASICs over requiring people stake money. In either case the people with the resources control the system, but at least in the case of ETH you can turn your staked ETH into the same amount of ETH you had before. Good luck reselling those ASICs for anything close to what they sell for.
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by imtringued on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:38AM (#32748501)
Bitcoin as we know it exclusively relies on centralised exchanges.
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by fezfight on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:44AM (#32750510)
It doesn't in any way rely on exchanges.
Re:The future of cryptocurrency is at stake in Ethereum’s sw... by imtringued on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:37AM (#32748491)
>that's a property of our political systems, not of the type of money we use.

That actually is a property of the money we use because the wealthy can always refuse to spend or invest which forces the government to borrow more money.