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Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by dukeofdoom on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:20AM (#32733173)
Oceans have been terribly overfished, but people need to eat. Many poorer countries rely on fishing to help then feed their populations. Banning commercial fishing would be like banning commercial chicken. A huge loss of a major cheap source of protein, and nothing to replace it with.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by dr_dshiv on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @04:00AM (#32734274)
Here is a source of sustainable cheap protein! It is hard to compete with the commodity price of fish meal but we are very close to doing so. (I know, we are running a maggot farm, don’t judge) Inputs are based on restaurant food waste. Also looking for sources of cheap starch if you know any.

Displacing fish meal is a major priority and motivation for this startup.

Comments welcome:

https://www.getprotyn.com/

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by rootlocus on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @04:49AM (#32734578)
Sounds like it has lots of benefits and no downsides, which begs more research. The website however seems to have a leftover placeholder text under "Our bugs are bettering the world" > "Disease Free":

That wasn't real text. Just holding some space here. Real text is going to be awesome.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Veen on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @05:55AM (#32734978)
Let them eat maggots.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by superchroma on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:13AM (#32733554)
That's too bad. Nobody told people to have all those mouths to feed. The oceans are overfished and heavily polluted and people need the ocean to survive. If people rely on fucking up the ocean, we're all in trouble.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by ssizn on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:55AM (#32734235)
Humans > Environment.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Beltalowda on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @11:11AM (#32738160)
In principle, I don't entirely disagree with that, however, humans are part of the environment. We need "the environment" to survive, such as a sustainable marine ecosystem. I mean, if there are no more fish to catch due to overfishing then humans will be in trouble, too.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by waste_monk on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @12:23AM (#32746283)
All well and good until you run out of environment. If the ocean is overfished and its ecosystem collapses, the people who depend on it for food will starve anyway.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by everforward on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @01:16PM (#32753388)
This. We either use the little bit of abusing the ocean we have left to flatten out population curves, or the population crashes to a much lower level later on.

We wouldn't need such dramatic changes to combat global warming if the population didn't continually exponentially expand.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by TaylorAlexander on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:31AM (#32733249)
I mean we could absolutely replace a lot of this with plant based sources. Why do you say there is nothing to replace it?
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by maxbond on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:36AM (#32733287)
Then when we get together as a global community to ban fishing, let's also agree to pay for the transition to aquaculture and other sustainable forms of acquiring protein (according to the renewable resources available in a given region). If "take away their livelihood without giving them an alternative" isn't acceptable - and of course it isn't - "let's do nothing" isn't the only alternative we should consider.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by nkingsy on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:39AM (#32733730)
Aquaculture is dependent on ocean fishing
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by maxbond on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:57AM (#32733845)
To catch fry right? This is a good point but it does seem like it would be possible to overcome with better aquaculture technology (eg, the ability to breed fry in captivity). I'm certainly not an expert in aquaculture, I've done a small amount of work with aquaponics systems and am more bullish on spirulina and chlorella cultivation (algae cultivation) than aquaculture, but aquaculture seemed more relevant as a drop in replacement for fishing.

Consider it a metanym of for the technology that best meets the needs a given local community, using the resources which are available in that environment, while doing the least harm to the environment which is possible given the constraints. I'm not an absolutist, and my goal is to argue against a false dichotomy rather than to advocate for any particular technology.

Sustainability necessarily means taking into account the resources available in a given local environment, so the question of whether a given technology is useful or sustainable only has meaning if we flesh out that context.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Guthur on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:53AM (#32733400)
Oh you so benevolent, force people at gun point to abide by your will, right?
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by maxbond on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:11AM (#32733523)
Ignoring the snark, it's an interesting point and I'm not in favor of using violence to achieve any ends. Not interested in waiting around to die because some large fishing interests are structurally incapable of behaving responsibly, either, though.

Just as I reject that our only options are to either screw over fishing communities or do nothing, I reject that our only alternatives are violence or doing nothing. I don't believe there is a single solution which can be applied in all situations that would resolve this, it would need to be worked out on a case by case basis and in cooperation with those communities. But just because it is complex and difficult does not mean it doesn't exist, and the alternative is an ecological collapse which we are unlikely to survive.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Guthur on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:23AM (#32733616)
Not you nor anyone else has any proof of any collapse, it is hyperbolic nonsense.

The problem is that all and I mean all of these idealogical driven agendas require tyranny because I for one do not agree with your world view.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by maxbond on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:45AM (#32733758)
I hope you'll reconsider this approach to conversation. You don't even know my worldview or my ideology, you seem to be reacting to some imagined worst case for what my world view could be. This is pretty gratuitous and makes it difficult to have a conversation with you; you aren't actually having a discussion with me, you're trying to engage with a phenomenon you imagine that I'm a part of. You're taking some views I've expressed and generalizing them to my entire world view, filling in the blanks with the least charitable assumptions you could make.

For that reason, it doesn't seem there's a productive way for me to engage with you.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Jedd on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @06:03AM (#32735024)
> Not you nor anyone else has any proof of any collapse, it is hyperbolic nonsense.

I'm surprised that there's any contention at all around the science that shows ocean degradation (historical and on-going), or indeed about the (likely) impending collapse.

In 2014, the living planet report[0] included this dire little snippet:

"Population sizes of vertebrate species—mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and fish—have declined by 52 percent over the last 40 years."

Fishery exhaustion around the globe is tremendously well documented, with only a tiny handful of isolated success stories where strict regulation has been able to be enforced, and localised recovery has started to occur (New Zealand, f.e.).

I'm wondering how you claim hyperbole in the people studying and reporting these things.

[0] http://assets.worldwildlife.org/publications/723/files/origi...

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by anon84873628 on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @03:58AM (#32734260)
I'm guessing anything you don't agree with is considered ideology driven?

You seem unfamiliar with the mathematics of game theory or multi-agent coordination problems. The only way to avoid these traps (overfishing is literally a textbook example) is to grant regulatory authority to some overarching entity, like a government. That's not the same as tyranny.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by Guthur on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @04:11AM (#32734346)
No, the problem is that you are repeating the same nonsense that has been said for literally decades. So at this stage we can't agree there is actually a problem. If species go extinct that is not actually in my mind a problem that justifies a central solution.

I am tired of being robbed blind of my free will and wealth by these huge central planning bureaucracies. None of us are smart enough to have that much control.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by rootlocus on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @04:54AM (#32734606)
> The problem is that all and I mean all of these idealogical driven agendas require tyranny because I for one do not agree with your world view.

There's always someone who disagrees with someone else's world view, that doesn't make it tyranny.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by goodpoint on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @05:40AM (#32734875)
> Oceans have been terribly overfished, but people need to eat

"but"? That's a non-sequitur. If we run out of fish there's no fish to eat.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by zozbot234 on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:28AM (#32733228)
Commercial chicken is not hunted in the wild, so I'm not sure how that comparison makes any sense. The oceans are already being depleted of fish in a highly unsustainable way so if you care about that protein source, shutting down large-scale fishing altogether is exactly what you should do.
Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by dukeofdoom on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @01:54AM (#32733404)
The logistics of what you are proposing is just not there, unless you're cool with committing another man made famine like the Holodomor. I actually find it disturbing with the ease you're willing to starve the poor of the world.

Ocean fishing requires very little energy input, but provides huge amounts of ready to eat food output. You can't replace that in many parts of the world. Not every place has good farm land for one, or the technological infrastructure, or even political stability.

Give you and example. Egypt went from a population of 8 million to 80 million in the last century. Do you think they can grow all that food in the desert? or do they rely on fishing and on global imports of food items...like grain from Ukraine. How will the poor do when you take out one of their sources of food. While simultaneously the price of energy is sky rocketing and global trade is under threat do to conflict and as countries begin to hoard fertilizer and food for their own populations, in anticipation of the the coming winter.

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by wumpus on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @02:08AM (#32733509)
> Ocean fishing requires very little energy input

So all of those studies pointing out that most ocean fishing only happens because of subsidized fuel are wrong?

Re:Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared by djbebs on Tuesday September 06, 2022 @10:27AM (#32737548)
Anytime someone tries to argue that fossil fuels are being subsidized, it's safe to ignore every argument they will ever make on the subject.

When someone can't even acknowledge reality there's really no point in engaging.