In this case, the entire forum was created to target and harass a specific person. From there it evolved to target and harass specific people / communities.

As I said in my initial response, we all have a line in the sand that we draw. For me, Kiwifarms crosses that line.

Maybe you're okay with a website dedicated to harassing and doxxing specific people. I am not.

Do you agree that Daily Stormer should not have been banned? They were created to opine about white ethno-nationalism, etc. and not to target or doxx or harass specific people. Is your line moving now?

Given that they also engage in targeting, harassing, and doxxing specific people, yes, they should have been banned. My line has not moved.

What’s your opinion on sites not targeting specific individuals? Like, “people with Property X have no place in civilized society” where readers of this site occasionally went on killing sprees of people in the category?

The big mistake here is trying to come up with a single code by which to codify speech. I mean, a government (even one supporting free speech) has to do this, because they're the enforcer of last resort, and it's really necessary that such a code promulgated by the government err on the side of being "too permissive".

But-- we should have big markets of many participants who all make their own decisions about what they condone. Then, the individual decisions are not so toxic. And if you are doing something egregious where almost all of them say no, well, you got what you deserved.

My personal thoughts: exposing peoples' personal information for the explicit purpose of severe and illegal harassment is on the "definitely not OK" side of things. Ordinary hate speech that occasionally leads to spree violence is much murkier.

Honestly, it depends on what that property is and if the person went on a killing spree based on their views on property X or for other reasons.

If Property X is something like the color of their skin, their sexuality, their gender, etc, then I would support cloudflare banning them.

I am certainly not the master of what should and should not be on the internet, and neither should cloudflare. As a society, though, there are some things that most can agree on.

There are mechanisms in law for courts to order removal of illegal content. ISPs don't ever have to define "hate speech". Sounds to me want to censor speech you hate.

Again, we all have a line here. Would you, for example, be supportive of banning websites which knowingly promote and distribute child pornography?

We may disagree on where that line should be, but most people absolutely have this line.

Are you any different? If I graffiti'd a slogan you hated on your garage, would you cover it up? Would you censor speech you hate?

Someone defines what gets removed. Ideally in a democracy "society" as a whole decides what that is. The obvious example is child exploitation, are pedophiles rights to swap images of kids currently being "censored as speech YOU hate"?.

Harassment forums like the one in discussion here have no place in civilized society and I am happy for them to be censored. The people that frequent these sites can get together in person and chat about hating all they want, but the method of their harassment (the global platform of the internet) should removed -- insofar as that is possible.

As I was discussing in the previous thread, I disagree with this.

> Someone defines what gets removed. Ideally in a democracy "society" as a whole decides what that is.

Ideally, many smaller elements make their decisions about what speech to promote or convey, and "society" or the "government" is the actor of last resort-- stepping in for the most not-OK stuff when the market has been shown to fail.

Concentrated power is dangerous-- whether it's in the hands of a government or a single overly-powerful commercial actor-- and needs to be restrained one way or another.

They never said their only line was doxxing or harassing.

> As I said in my initial response, we all have a line in the sand that we draw. For me, Kiwifarms crosses that line.

Okay, please, if you dont mind, specify how that line is drawn up

Sure thing, boss, although I'll be repeating myself. Actively encouraging others to harass and doxx specific individuals or groups crosses that line.

okay, would this include CNN that threatened to doxx someone for creating the trump cnn boxxing meme photo? (which he actually did not create)

For a one-time thing? No. That's something which can be repaired, reprimanded, or something upon which future policies could be set.

They're also not encouraging their viewers to harass, contact, and troll specific individuals.

I don't support doxxing, and this is a false equivalency at best.

I don't watch CNN, so I had to read up on the boxing meme thing first.