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Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by musha68k on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @09:44PM (#32670807)
The effects are also compounding with each re-infection.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by ArboriaInstitut on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:31PM (#32671179)
Do any of the epidemiologists/virologists who are saying this offer any thoughts as to why SARS-CoV-2 and the immune response to it are so different from every other novel virus which has emerged in the past? Is there any precedent at all for "a virus which reinfects you over and over with no reduction in lethality/sequelae from the repeat infections"?
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by sandworm101 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:35PM (#32671627)
Yes. Flu. Constant (yearly) reinfection by slightly different variants with near-similar mortality regardless of previous variant exposure.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by resoluteteeth on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:00PM (#32671393)
What if these sequalae aren't different from other coronaviruses?
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by ArboriaInstitut on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:08PM (#32671445)
Then obviously something else would have to be the main cause of the bump in excess deaths that's been observed.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by eastbound on Thursday September 01, 2022 @01:27AM (#32672345)
Lockdowns. It’s the only coronavirus we’ve treated by asking everyone to stay home. The impact on being healthy (sports, sun exposure, happiness) is huge.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by ajross on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:54PM (#32671750)
> so different from every other novel virus which has emerged in the past

There's only one novel pandemic to study every century or so. I don't think there's any evidence at all that it's "so different". It's just better studied because in 1918 only a handful of scientists even knew that "viruses" existed.

Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by haggy102 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @09:55PM (#32670910)
Source?
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by qbasic_forever on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @09:59PM (#32670944)
https://erictopol.substack.com/p/a-reinfection-red-flag

Preprint of a major study from VA data. It will probably publish in the near future and I haven't heard any major changes or revisions.

Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by timr on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:59PM (#32671383)
This study is one of a number of different ones from the same lab (Al Aly), taking a dataset of older, sicker people (US veterans who seek hospital care at the VA), and looking at groups who had two hospital confirmed infections, vs. those with one hospital confirmed infection, vs those who went to the hospital with no confirmed infections.

Per the paper's abstract:

> We show that COMPARED TO PEOPLE WITH FIRST INFECTION, reinfection contributes additional risks of all-cause mortality, hospitalization, and adverse health outcomes

(emphasis mine)

All this paper shows is that if you follow a cohort of older, sicker people -- people who are seeking hospital care! people who were infected and possibly hospitalized in the first wave! -- long enough for them to get multiple reinfections (in this case, about 2 years, from the original Covid wave through the Omicron wave), the overall rates of a (selected) set of different health conditions goes up over time. They have not shown that the increased risk is because of Covid. The paper has no way of following the younger, healthier people (particularly in the later waves, where home testing was common) who never set foot in a VA hospital and had a Covid test, despite having Covid. There is a huge selection bias [1] problem here. There may be others, such as immortal time bias. [2]

What you would like to see in a study like this is that it is prospective (the participants were selected randomly in advance and followed over time); but this study is retrospective. You would also like to see a control against a similar illness, such as flu or non-Covid pneumonia; this study does not have such a comparison (despite being trivial to make), and resorts to using "atopic dermatitis and neoplasms" as a "negative control" instead.

As an aside, Al Aly has a history of using a weird grab-bag of negative control illnesses against this same dataset across his various papers. One wonders why he doesn't always use the same illness as a negative control -- presumably atopic dermatitis didn't suddenly start being unassociated with Covid between his studies, right? Would the results not be the same if he was consistent? I'm guessing not.

In short, this study is confounded, and Eric Topol really needs to tone down his fear-mongering. Even if you believe the top-line results, unless you are an elderly person sick enough to be seeking regular hospital care, this has very little relevance to your risk profile.

[1] https://catalogofbias.org/biases/selection-bias/

[2] https://catalogofbias.org/biases/immortal-time-bias/

Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by qbasic_forever on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:58PM (#32671775)
Find a better way to cope IMHO, nothing you said negates the main point that reinfection is creating worse outcomes in some people. Eric Topol is not "fear-mongering", you are projecting that insecurity of yours onto him.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by timr on Thursday September 01, 2022 @12:28AM (#32671996)
> nothing you said negates the main point that reinfection is creating worse outcomes in some people

Except for the parts where I point out that this result is confounded by the advanced age and morbidity of the study population; the health-seeking behavior that led to their inclusion; and the fact that they're all getting older across the course of the study (which tends to result in higher rates of death, illness and relocation to Florida. I wonder if he found that Covid caused higher rates of golfer's elbow?)

Also, no, the study didn't show anything is "creating" anything else. It argued that there's a correlation.

Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by stevenrj on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:04PM (#32670975)
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by EGreg on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:13PM (#32671037)
"However, whether reinfection adds to the risk incurred after the first infection is not clear."
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by nishs on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:19PM (#32671081)
The sentence you’ve quoted, from the abstract of the paper, refers to the state of knowledge before this paper was written/published.

The results section of the paper updates this knowledge. It says:

“Compared to those with first infection, those with reinfection exhibited increased risk and excess burden of all-cause mortality, hospitalization, and at least one sequela in the acute phase and the post-acute phase of the reinfection.”

“… the risk was higher in those who had two infections (HR 2.11 (2.07, 2.15); burden 234.58 (227.08, 241.92)), and highest in those with three or more infections (HR 3.00 (2.71, 3.31) …”

Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by hackerlight on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:31PM (#32671175)
Hate to be that guy, but people who are susceptible to reinfection are also probably less healthy.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by bee_rider on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @10:49PM (#32671300)
I'm pretty sure everyone is susceptible to reinfection after a while.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by hackerlight on Thursday September 01, 2022 @03:46AM (#32673278)
Susceptibility is also a spectrum, though, which is what I meant to get at and failed to communicate clearly. Immunocompromised people are probably more susceptible than others? I don't have data on that, it's just a guess.
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by epgui on Thursday September 01, 2022 @12:04AM (#32671829)
Affirmative. (biochemist)
Re:U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutiv... by noduerme on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:35PM (#32671626)
Has there been anything published yet as to whether this holds true controlling for which strain of covid one is reinfected with, or whether one is vaccinated? I know at least one vaccinated person who's been reinfected with no symptoms at all the second time, and only knew because they had to get tested.