News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by TillE on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:18AM (#32663239)
It is utterly inexcusable that Germany continued to rely entirely on Russian gas after the invasion of Crimea in 2014 at the very latest. We didn't have a single LNG terminal!

Pick your mix of blind stupidity and outright corruption, but I lean heavily towards the latter.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by drexlspivey on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:31AM (#32663484)
Look no further than Gerhard Schroder (ex Chancellor of Germany). He was a strong advocate of the Nord Stream pipeline between Russia and Germany. He later became manager of Nord Stream 2, he joined the board of directors of Rosnef (biggest Russian oil producer) and 20 days before the Russian invasion he joined the board of directors of Gazprom
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by ethbr0 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @04:06PM (#32667652)
There have been more reasonable explanations of the causality of that.

To wit, that multinational energy deals of that magnitude require political investment and certainty to be tenable. Schroder's involvement was a tacit acknowledgement of this reality, and gesture of political good faith.

Or put another way, neither Russia nor Germany would have contemplated the project without serious indications of political support.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by menotyou on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @01:33PM (#32665603)
The whole issue is self inflicted by the German government. So far Russia adhered to the supply contracts. The stakes are high for Russia here. If Russia would not adhere to the contract even in these times, other contract partners like India and China would likely reconsider their long term contracts.

It was Europe which decided not to by cheap Russian gas anymore and to ground their own economy. Instead Europa has to buy gas now on the spot market for about ten times the price. So Russia is more than happy by adhering to the contract and watching Europe to inflicting the damage themselves.

If the West would have decided to buy their NLG somewhere else 5 years ago, Russia would have invaded the Ukraine even with less considerations.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by rich_sasha on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @02:26PM (#32666318)
Russia is cutting deliveries quoting supposed technical problems, and demands unilateral changes to gas contracts, viz RUB payments. They also cut supplies to 0 for a number of European countries.

I mean, i don't quite blame them, they started a war and the West is sending in military kit to kill their soldiers in Ukraine, but Russia is certainly not holding it's side of the contracts here.

But it is indeed self inflicted as everyone warned Germany that this is how it will end. But hey gas was cheap for a while.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by origin_path on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @02:47PM (#32666630)
The only time supplies were cut to zero was for the annual maintenance which happens in the summer every single year, and the pipeline is always shut down for that. Go look at the history of Nord Stream flow rates (on their website) to see that this is true if you don't believe me.

The technical problems are real. A western company (German even) received a compressor turbine, repaired it and then sat on it due to sanctions. Germany got the sanctions voided for that equipment and it was shipped it back to Russia. If the problems weren't real we can assume it would have been discovered at that point. Also remember that the whole point of imposing sanctions on Russia is to degrade their factories and ability to repair complex equipment! Industrial disruption due to inability to access foreign parts and repair services is exactly what the sanctions were meant to create and yet when it happens, media and government claim there can be no possible wear and tear on huge pieces of rapidly spinning equipment, so it must all be 4D chess.

Russia did not "demand unilateral changes to gas contracts". It's the other way around. Europe sanctioned Russia and then stole all their EUR foreign reserves, an unprecedented and highly hostile move. Because Russia could no longer transact in EUR they said, OK, you'll have to pay us for gas in rubles. Given this they could theoretically have said you're violating your contracts which say you'll pay us in EUR, so we won't supply any gas until you un-sanction us, but they didn't.

So, every claim you're making here is wrong and this can be checked against documented facts and sources that aren't connected to Russia.

This is a core part of the problem with what's happening. The media lies and simply makes things up. People believe it anyway. Did Russiagate teach us nothing? What Russia is doing is bad but telling ourselves a bunch of nonsensical fairy tales will only make the situation worse.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by rich_sasha on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @03:29PM (#32667152)
Well, it's economic warfare and two are playing this game. But Russia is certainly not innocent here.

Russian funds were indeed frozen, but with the exception of banks processing gas payments so that can go ahead. Russia went further than asset freezes, and nationalised swathes of Western property in Russia, like leased aeroplanos for example. By EU countries laws, frozen Russian assets are to be returned at some point and cannot eg be used by other parties in the meantime. Whereas Russia declared a lot if Western assets their own property now.

I agree it's awkward, the West couldn't expect Russia to not respond to the sanctions. So in the narrow context of gas exports it's not simply "bad Russia good West", but Russia is clearly an active belligerent in this economic conflict.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by menotyou on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @04:18PM (#32667797)
> Russian funds were indeed frozen, but with the exception of banks processing gas payments so that can go ahead.

This is not correct. You have to understand that "money" at commercial banks is not money, but only a debt of that commercial bank with the account holder. Gas and other commodities are always paid in real money, which exists only in to flavors: Paper money and accounts directly at the respective central banks. This means you can have your real USD only on accounts at the FED and real Euros only at ECB etc. The West froze Russian accounts on EZB (the contracts are nominated to be paid in EUR) and at the same time wanted to pay the gas only on these accounts, which for obvious reasons was rejected by Russia. Russia requested to have their accounts unfrozen or paid in Rubels.

There was some face saving detours introduced into the payment process, but in the end the West pays now in Rubels.

Another example of self inflicted pain was when the West made it impossible for Russia to make debt payments. It was not Russia who suffered (they saved their payments), but the western creditors who lost their money.

I know a few investors who held Gazprom and Lukoil stocks over many years. They were factually expropriated because the brokers are refusing to process dividend payments or even selling the stock back to Russia. Again, not Russia was hit but citizens in the West.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by ethbr0 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @04:29PM (#32667927)
> Germany got the sanctions voided for that equipment and it was shipped it back to Russia.

Apparently there were multiple turbines, and at least one of them is in the "Germany (and Canada) have waived sanctions on it, but Gazprom refuses to accept it back because of sanctions" stage.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/explainer-nord-stream-...

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by origin_path on Thursday September 01, 2022 @03:53AM (#32673331)
They claim they are refusing to accept it due to lack of delivered documents. As discussed elsewhere on this thread, we don't know what these documents are or why Canada/Germany didn't deliver them or what's really going on here at all, so it's hard to know. But if Russia wanted to use gas sanctions on the west to get western sanctions on Russia relieved, they'd need to actually make that clear instead of talking about document delivery, so it's probably real.
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by hnhg on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:21AM (#32663292)
Outright corruption doesn't seem far-fetched: https://twitter.com/minna_alander/status/1561354139464044544...
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by nivenkos on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:32AM (#32663508)
Even back with the poisoning of Litvinenko, etc.

But tbh even since the 1970s, we know peak oil is coming. Nuclear fission and fusion plus full electrification of industry, transport and homes, and renewable energy investment should be absolutely critical. This is what taxes and governments are for!

Jumping on the US bandwagon so late is a mistake though, given the current situation it'd be best to stay neutral realistically (like Armenia, Georgia, etc.) and use the time to achieve the above. Ideology is nice, but realpolitik keeps the lights on.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by sam_lowry_ on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:53AM (#32663905)
Armenia gets 80% of its electricity production from a single nuclear power plant owned and operated by Russia. It also sits in a seismically active area of the world, tbn.
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by hef19898 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:58AM (#32664035)
Don't confuse simplistic world views with facts.

Also, I learned something about Armenia today.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by sam_lowry_ on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @12:51PM (#32664950)
This single fact explains most of Armenian politics. Russian wings Armenia like a dog wings its tail.
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by ploppyploppy on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:26AM (#32663393)
Germany's elites were almost certainly corrupt in this.
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:51AM (#32663875)
"Almost"?!
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by Brometheus on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:33AM (#32663517)
Sadly that's probably true. At the same time, the Energiewende (change to renewables) was sabotaged. Wonder why…
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by TrispusAttucks on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:52AM (#32663892)
Yep. They've been warned about this danger for years.

Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia' (2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by hef19898 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @11:59AM (#32664062)
Seriously?
Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by TMWNN on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @03:58PM (#32667536)
Your comments in this discussion are filled with desperate denial of the horrible situation your leaders have gotten yourselves into, and all you can say in response to video of Trump warning about this four years ago is "Seriously?".

Had Heiko Maas gone home four years ago and advised Merkel to listen to Trump and start weaning the country off Russian gas (and, yes, buy US gas instead), Germany would not face this existential crisis today. Instead, he laughed at the US president on camera, and is now enjoying a quiet retirement in Saarland (and, no doubt has no worries about whether he will be able to get gas to heat his home this winter). *The German crisis is 100% self-inflicted*.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by hef19898 on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @04:40PM (#32668069)
There is a crisis, but it is hardly "existential", yet. Self inflicted? How so? Because nobody could predict the future?

My "seriously" comment was a reaction to a post of what basically is a meme in a rather serious discussion.

As far the "German" crisis goes, isn't it rather a European, and one could make the case, global energy crisis? Compounded by a global economy heading for a recession (the US are already in one based on two quarters with negative GDP growth) caused by too much cheap money and staggering inflation due to supply short falls caused by Covid?

But yeah, if Germany would have bought US gas instead of Russian one all would be good... By the way, Nord Stream 2 never went live over this. Before any of the current mess happened. You want to blame someone, blame Putin to do something the USSR was too smart to do during the cold war.

Re:How Bad Europe’s Energy Crisis Is by TMWNN on Wednesday August 31, 2022 @07:30PM (#32669688)
>My "seriously" comment was a reaction to a post of what basically is a meme in a rather serious discussion.

That you've seen the video elsewhere neither makes it a "meme", nor allows you to dismiss it as merely such. (I'm just amazed that you didn't pull the "Even a broken clock is right twice a day"/"Trump said everything about anything so was bound to get something right"/"Trump also said uncomplimentary things about NATO so should have been arrested as a traitor" canards. And yes, I've seen all three responses, almost word for word, when I in the past pointed to the Trump video.)

>As far the "German" crisis goes, isn't it rather a European, and one could make the case, global energy crisis?

This is a global crisis in large part because of Germany. Germany is the large European economy most dependent on Russian energy. Even setting aside how the German economy drives the bulk of Europe's economy, thanks to the European energy market increased prices in Germany increases prices on the rest of the continent. The UK is mostly self-sufficient in terms of gas, but prices there have risen too because producers understandably prefer selling to those on the continent willing to pay much more.

The US is also self-sufficient, but prices here have risen (not as much, but some) for similar reasons. The non-developed world is going to be hit the hardest.