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Re:The silent majority in software by donatj on Monday August 29, 2022 @03:59AM (#32635738)
> Sometimes I’ve seen Pull Requests from empty accounts with a brief explanation of what was implemented. They just submit bug fixes, no drama.

Over half my coworkers including some very talented developers have no public repos. As someone with almost 200 that always blows my mind.

How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest question on my part. I want to understand.

Re:The silent majority in software by pavlov on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:04AM (#32635770)
Great salespeople aren’t expected to run lemonade stands after work. “You’re so good at sales, how come you don’t want to sell something in the evening? There must be something you’re itching to sell to your neighbors.”

Software engineers seem unique among professionals that you’re expected to maintain a hobbyist body of work that’s also your professional calling card.

Re:The silent majority in software by Transfinity on Monday August 29, 2022 @05:49AM (#32636328)
I will occasionally file bug reports or even submit fixes to open source projects as part of doing my job. As an engineer, one of my responsibilities is to maintain the commons - without it I would be much less productive. On the other hand I have a lot of autonomy in my work, a chill boss and a team that doesn't need to crunch. If someone I report to got grumpy I would stop, and I definitely don't do this on my own time.
Re:The silent majority in software by donatj on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:12AM (#32635817)
I think that applies to a lot of creative industries. Certainly when I was looking to be a designer some 20 years ago you were expected to maintain a portfolio.

I don’t even mean in that sense though, I just don’t understand having a skill like that and not using it for fun.

For what it’s worth, the best salespeople I know have almost no purely home life and are taking calls and making deals all hours of the day.

Re:The silent majority in software by hef19898 on Monday August 29, 2022 @05:41AM (#32636285)
Assuming you treat your creative job also as a hobby, while nt doing so is also perfectly ok, doesn't mean your work has to be public, right?
Re:The silent majority in software by goodpoint on Monday August 29, 2022 @05:35AM (#32636256)
Still, hobby projects are not a portfolio.
Re:The silent majority in software by donatj on Monday August 29, 2022 @03:45PM (#32642636)
They are when you haven't other things you can show show.
Re:The silent majority in software by gettingitdone on Monday August 29, 2022 @06:27AM (#32636518)
> How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill

That's not the right conclusion to make. There are lots of developers who code in their spare time, but don't make their code public on Github.

I have had several side projects, but I am not inclined to share my code on Github. Either because I intend to make money off them, or because I don't have time to manage an open source project. Part of it is also caused by "imposter syndrome", where I don't have time to make the code good enough for public view.

You have over 200 public repos, which means you have a different view. But that doesn't mean that your coworkers don't do things on their spare time.

To be honest, I feel this attitude is beginning to spread to potential employers. Now we are expected to publish and be rated on our public repos, and it will just lead to lots of burned out developers in a few years that feel pressured to publish OSS and practice leetcode.

Re:The silent majority in software by Karrot_Kream on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:24AM (#32635894)
Just because you write code doesn't mean it ends up in a public place. I have lots of friends who like writing web scrapers and their code never sees the light of day. I write hundreds of programs and scripts for my house (media sorting programs, programs to help my friends and I choose restaurants, MILP programs for optimizing game actions, Bayesian models, etc, etc.) and only a small fraction end up online.
Re:The silent majority in software by tehCorner on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:19AM (#32635859)
Because there are a great bunch of developers who just code for work and want to maximize leisure/family time (including me). Sometimes I also do that _fun script_ you were thinking about over the week, or play with some random programming language, but I let those cases be the exception not the norm.
Re:The silent majority in software by gernb on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:30AM (#32635936)
There's nothing wrong with either path.

For me, I like coding, just like I like eating and I like socializing. The fact that I eat and socialize at work doesn't mean I try to avoid eating and socializing outside of work. Similarly the fact that I use a computer at work and or code at work doesn't mean I try to avoid using a computer and or code outside of work.

My working on whatever my company wants me to work on is not the same as me pursuing a hobby even if they overlap in the activities required to do both.

Also, some people just really enjoy it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32593135

Re:The silent majority in software by tehCorner on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:40AM (#32635985)
Totally agree, I'm not saying there is a right path.

In my case, when I started in this industry 10 years ago I found most of my joy in coding, as time passed by I engaged into different hobbies that brought more joy to my life and ended up allocating more time on them than coding.

Re:The silent majority in software by barnabee on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:34AM (#32635956)
Most of the code I ever wrote in my spare time never made it to a public repo. Usually because I either didn't finish it (I enjoy experimenting and prototyping the most), it was incredibly specific and hardcoded to my personal environment, or I just couldn't be bothered to go make sure I removed all the hardcoded secrets, implement environment variables instead, etc. I'm slowly trying to do better (and I did at least start a company that publishes pretty much everything it does).

It's surprising (and awesome!) to me how much open source repos have become a part of many people's CV/resumé.

Re:The silent majority in software by never_inline on Monday August 29, 2022 @08:27AM (#32637318)
> how much open source repos have become a part of many people's CV/resumé.

This is also possible because of competition. I am a student. All my peers grind much more Leetcode than me. So I put at least some code on GitHub and add that to resume. Not necessarily useful for others, but experiments I did etc.. included.

Re:The silent majority in software by dan_mctree on Monday August 29, 2022 @06:31AM (#32636544)
I spend significant time outside work on programming, and have no real usable public repos. The public repo route only works if what you want to build is something that's shareable. I build random experimental image processing software or physics simulations that are held together with hardcoded ducktape. There's nothing there that's usable for anyone else so I don't share it
Re:The silent majority in software by astura on Monday August 29, 2022 @12:42PM (#32640333)
>How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest question on my part. I want to understand.

Because most people (myself included, 16 yrs professional experience) don't want to do unpaid work outside of work hours. How do you not understand that?

Re:The silent majority in software by dceddia on Monday August 29, 2022 @01:37PM (#32641075)
It sounds like you're starting with the assumption that if someone writes software to fill a hole of theirs, that they would almost certainly make it public. I don't think that's true for everyone.
Re:The silent majority in software by yourapostasy on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:21AM (#32635878)
I found repos a good conversation starter, but I'm far more interested in how one troubleshoots and works together in teams than code creation. Code creation is table stakes, and I can ascertain that in a variety of ways and repos are just a partially sufficient but not necessary signal.
Re:The silent majority in software by innocentoldguy on Monday August 29, 2022 @01:17PM (#32640799)
I don’t have any public repos because I’d much rather spend my personal time with my family doing non-work things. I think it just comes down to what you value in your personal time. For some people, it is coding. For others, it isn’t. Neither is good or bad.
Re:The silent majority in software by fassssst on Monday August 29, 2022 @09:55AM (#32638280)
I’m generally averse to offering my skilled labor for free, so I spend the same effort fixing stuff on internal things and coaching coworkers. This has paid off big time for my career.

I also have a lot of hobbies that scratch the same itch, like making music. In fact, making music feels like more of a whole brain workout than programming, so I’d much rather spend more of my limited time on Earth doing that than writing more code.

Re:The silent majority in software by cubancigar11 on Monday August 29, 2022 @04:12AM (#32635816)
Because they have no love for the job. They are doing it for something else and so are only interested in working on things that have a visible and clear return.

These people are also good at politics. There is a reason bill gates is rich and rms isn't.

Re:The silent majority in software by galoisgirl on Monday August 29, 2022 @05:59AM (#32636374)
Not necessarily. I love my job, and I keep a work-life balance to keep it that way.

Love does not mean spending every waking hour on something.

I love my spouse, yet I need to socialize with other people, as well as alone time.

Re:The silent majority in software by yamtaddle on Monday August 29, 2022 @10:03AM (#32638380)
There's nothing—nothing—I would love to do 40ish hours per week, every single week, 48-50ish weeks per year. Nothing.

A full-time programming job fills up maybe 200% of the time I want to spend on that in a year.

Re:The silent majority in software by citizenkeen on Monday August 29, 2022 @09:09AM (#32637738)
This is the viewpoint of somebody who doesn’t have any other loves in their life.

I love my job. A lot. I also love my wife, my kids, my friends, my community, and a wide variety of time intensive hobbies.

Re:The silent majority in software by wnolens on Monday August 29, 2022 @10:00AM (#32638345)
I'm literally paid not to.
Re:The silent majority in software by Theodores on Monday August 29, 2022 @08:03AM (#32637154)
If you do your day job for your employer with total dedication then you are not likely to 'need' to post public repos or get involved in slagging off different programming trends. Plus you have already heard what people have to say about your toolset and you know they know little about your domain expertise.

No word of a lie, a few years ago a 'crypto' person told me that all the code I was working exceptionally hard at was a complete waste of time. Blockchain technology would solve everything. I just had to wait. And I am still waiting!

I have a lot to show for the work I have done since that conversation with buttons I have put online getting clicked millions of times with nobody personally thanking me. It is 'silent majority' code. No idea where the 'crypto' person got, I stick to my own lane and I don't need to rubber-neck.

Although it is good to share one's work so nobody else has to reinvent the wheel, if I have a better solution and I have developed it in the context of dedication to the day job, then that software gives a commercial advantage to my employer. Even if the core of the idea is mine and that I developed it in my own time, I 'bat' for my employer, and, if it is in their interests to keep the repo private, then I will.

There is also the matter of peer review. My colleagues are too busy to spend time on my pet projects.

The 'crypto' person has one of those LinkedIn profiles where they have more than the maximum amount of connections, with all kinds of grand job titles and the rest of it. I am just a programmer and I do not need a job title. I don't even need LinkedIn and I do not spend time inventing a grander version of myself online.

For code samples I can share the code that I worked on, albeit removing any business logic that is not mine to share. In my niche, with recruiters that know me, this 'just show me the code' works fine.

What if everyone worked like me? There would be no fine repos to plunder!!! Well, there are a few pull requests I have put into public repos and the majority of the population cannot say that. Plus, if I spend two decades silently writing code, then, one day, post a repo, it is going to be good.

To be honest the code I was writing two years ago makes me cringe with shame at how naive it is, so I doubt that my efforts from before that would have been for the wider public good, even if they did fix a business problem at the time. I have sometimes had to get working code rather than beautifully refactored code, then onto the next project.