I cannot recall one single advertisement I ever saw in my life, other than some institutional/non-profit ads, which remotely fits that idyllic description. So it's really a moot point. "What if advertising were just calm factual information", well but it's not! It's definitely not! It's psychological warfare of moderate-to-high intensity. So what use is pretending it's something it's not? It's very disingenuous to pretend it can ever be "gentle, honest, and educational" (lol)
I also don't see how advertising is responsible for chip mass-production and Moore's law.
When it comes to something like buying a car, I don't want to be advertised to since the manufacturer of that product 1) isn't a part of my community and 2) isn't supported by the people in my area.
I can absolutely think of cases where I would have liked to know what services are available for specific products, like chair making, or a project I have in mind, rather than having to ask around to figure out who even does it in my area. Obviously, I would still have to do some research to figure out if the person advertising is any good, but the fact that a small business has a budget for advertising is a very positive indicator that they are at least professional enough to have some revenue.
Advertising, when it relates to something a small business can exist within, reduces the amount of time and effort I have to put in to seeing how many competitors are in that space. It's not something that I'm thrilled about, but it does have benefit within certain circumstance.
We had this, it was called phone books. And I guess a phone book is technically advertising, but there's clearly a difference between info and manipulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_pages
I don't mind advertising whenever I am actively looking for something.
What I have problems with is seeing ads when I don't want to see them.
Total disagree. New trends, improvements communicate itself one or the other way. If I want a new X, I'd rather research on my own, best are objective tests, or worse then selective advertisements I choose to view.
Even non-aggressive mild advertisements that just try to snatch my attention involuntarily are just not needed and a pain. The world could be much better without that crap.
I don't buy the argument that advertisements were necessary for manufacutring at scale, any source?
> Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look.
Erm wtf what, no, just no, leave me alone please. I want to find you in a dedicated magazine / tests / reviews if your something is something I currently want, otherwise this attention grab is hostile.
There’s a qualitative argument there as well, and whether to value not having to pay for ad-supported publications and services, but that’s essentially the question in the preference for or against advertising: who pays and who gets paid to make the right buyers and sellers aware of each other.
I'd go even further: have different platforms compete as "and serving" places, basically opt-in targeted advertising sites. They aren't allowed to use any external data, just a questionnaire and your behaviour on the platform, and the user must choose to go to the site by entering it into their browser or looking it up on Google. No ads anywhere else.
If ads are truly as beneficial as you describe, people will go for it. Let the market decide whether ads are good for the consumer
I don't disagree, but there are a few points that I see differently.
First of all, I think that what you're looking for is promotion, that is based on someone or some entity promoting your products and services, putting their face on it and leveraging their reputation of connoisseur of the matter at hand. It's based on trust and works best especially for tech products
Nobody buy smartphones based on adv, well except iPhone users that buy the brand iPhone - that could be seen as a confirmation of the trust based promotion, they trust Apple -, people watch reviews on YouTube channels that they trust.
Advertising is low effort. it's usually someone writing a script for you, pretending to be you, that it is the company that is talking directly to you, but it's in fact an agency that wrote a claim and a story to tell, to actually sell, not promote, the service or product in question by exploiting your feelings.
Secondly, I don't believe that advertising made laptops affordable, research did.
Super computers still cost millions and are an order or two of magnitude more powerful than you regular laptop of today.
What?? If there ever was proof that HN is completely clueless about reality not empathetic of their fellow humans. Ads are not brainwashing.
The simple answer is that the real disconnect is thinking that since someone comments on HN, he is some kind of a mythical creature.
I am a middle aged man from Italy that saw mobile phones birth when was 20 already.
Don't assume that your experience is my experience.
Nobody I know closely knows what HN is, they ask me what phone to buy or which laptop, because I've always been the "techie" of the family/group of friends and because they care about not wasting their money but can't navigate the bullshit they see in the ads.
I guess that "blast past fast" or "do what you can" don't really say anything about the device true capabilities and why one should spend their money to buy it.
unless the reason is "I will buy whatever rich people buy" or "I like the colour of this one"
Of course the iPhone ads work, because they don't promote the phone, they sell a way of life, a lifestyle, their target is the "cool kids" that want to be "content creators" and that appeals to their desire to be part of what is fashionable among their peers, but that's exactly what brainwashing is.
Ads is brainwashing and it's scientifically weaponized against the reference target.
repetita iuvant: they don't promote the product, they exploit your sentiments, desires, fears, whatever works, to make you buy the product. But are actually a bunch of lies.
Stopp invading my space (public spaces, software, websites), and put ads there for people that are interested in being suggested products they might like. And, instead of tracking all my activity, put a form that I can fill out with the details I am comfortable with.
Not gonna happen, because they're paying people and companies to annoy you with the ads almost nobody wants to see
The random road signs for biggest bank in the land, or one of the three telecom companies in the land, or for things like well known beverages is quite ridiculous. Almost everyone knows these companies exist already.
Examples: - Obvious ads vs. sneaky product placements - There should be spaces/times without ads allowed
Another thing that makes me wonder is big know companies (soda for example) constantly making ads. This is not the case of "Hey we made something new" as literally everybody knows the product for years. This constant cognitive exposure has some similarities to propaganda. We are not allowed to forget them.
> But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational.
This pretty much sums it up really good.
Do you like being approach on the street by solicitors? Personally, I hate it. When I’m walking, I appreciate undisturbed personal space. I feel the same way about advertising. I don’t care that the company is proud. I want my personal space undisturbed. You can show me something if I ask, but to assume I care to see anything you have to offer is rude.
It's worse than that. Advertising persuades people to buy ever more stuff they don't need, thereby causing enormous damage to the planet. Advertising is among the top of things we should ban to reduce climate change.
There is no such thing as honest advertising. The conflict of interest is inherent. The best information comes from third parties but even that gets corrupted by advertisers eventually.
> Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look.
When I want companies talking to me about products, I'll visit their website or I'll open their store app. In those cases it's not even advertising but information. I asked to see the products. Advertising is by definition an intrusion, uninvited.
Most of the time I don't want companies talking to me about offers. Their insistence is abuse.
That ideal of advertising you described is virtually non-existent. It's generally manipulation of the lowest sort concocted by sociopathic people.
This is obviously untrue. Not only can a merchant engage in only honest advertising, there are those who do.
There's a conflict of interest every time a married man has a drink with an interested woman. That doesn't mean he cheats.
This is highly political and that 'belief' is indeed often ideological.
Free flow of information and awareness of products and services on offer is an important aspect of an open society and free market economics.
I think this has a lot to do with the fact that the alternatives that have been tried have historically been either failures or catastrophes.
I don't like political arguments on hn but if you're truly interested I can try to summarise them when I get home later.
And the latter is fully achievable still without everything that is "advertising" today.
There is a widespread belief that Advertising serves no purpose to humanity.
Advertising is like anything in life: In high doses it is harmful. In lower doses it is useful. If there are regulators in your country that prevent advertisers from making false claims, even better.
Advertising has helped me hone onto products and services in my whole life that I've found useful. Many times I would have not been able to find the product or service if it were not for that advertisement. [You could claim that I was "brainwashed" into buying that product but that could be applied to any interaction in life. For example, if my spouse convinced me to do something, it usually means the logic was sound and it is highly unlikely that I was brainwashed to do her bidding].
No one likes being aggressively marketed to. No one likes being duped. But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational.
Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look. By selling to you, the customer, we can make a profit and you can get the benefit from our product". Advertising can be a win-win.
Advertising can allow manufacturing at scale. It has helped bring about many the marvels of technology that would have cost millions of dollars a few decades ago to be just a few hundred (e.g. our laptops that are more powerful than supercomputers of of the 1990s). Without advertising many companies may not have reached the sales volume to keep bringing down costs year after year.
I could go on. Adverting is useful. Bad actors must be weeded out. However, Advertising in itself is useful.