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Re:Programming breakthroughs we need by ziddoap on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @02:59PM (#32500281)
>excel has a learning curve like anything else,

Agreed.

>But excel proficiency acquisition is very similar to a programming proficiency acquisition

Strong disagree. Maybe if you only consider those extreme cases you referenced (ray-tracing, heavy VBA, etc.), sure. But in general? No shot.

Excel gives immediate feedback with a visual interface. There's no need to learn about variables or syntax or memory or compiling. There's no dependencies and no package managers. It abstracts nearly everything away. Click the place you want the thing to go, type the thing. Want a chart? Click the picture of the chart you like and click and drag over what you want in the chart. Want to change chart colors? Click the color you want. Want to change how the data is displayed visually? Press the bold button, or the color button, or the border button, whatever your heart desires is a click away with the same interface your used to with Word.

A great comparison is a geographic heatmap. In Excel, you need 2 columns. One with some States/Provinces and the other with some numbers. Then you click the big map button and instantly have your map. I can write the instructions for it in the space of a napkin and someone who has never touched Excel can be making all the maps they want. Now think about how you would explain making the same geographic heatmap in Python (or whatever your 'easy' language of choice is) to someone who has never learned any programming concepts.

Re:Programming breakthroughs we need by barnabee on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @05:30PM (#32501973)
The amazing thing about Excel is that many (most?) people start using it without EVEN knowing how to make a simple formula.

They literally start using it as a way to lay out tables (usually of data). Then they make graphs. And add more tables. And learn how to use it like a basic pocket calculator (half of the formula I see that should be sums are actually =B21+B22+B23+B24+B25…) Then comes SUM. Then VLOOOKUP. Perhaps some IFs or COUNTIFs.

This process can take years for someone to go from first use to anything even slightly programming-like, if you squint at it.

A tiny fraction of these people ever do anything complex enough it looks even much like low-code or no-code "development". Even less write macros.

But you know what? In the first half hour, when all they wanted was to email round a list of team members and their lunch preferences, they already achieved something with Excel that they found useful, and they felt productive ever since. Most Excel users spend almost NO time learning the tool compared to how much time they spend getting (what they see as, and what probably is) value out of it, even when we are sat in sheer terror as we witness the horror they have unleashed on the world.

That is the bar you have to clear to make a "better Excel".

Re:Programming breakthroughs we need by sleepybrett on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @10:02PM (#32504330)
Honestly I tried to do some simple shit in excel today for the first time in years and holy shit, who thought this ribbon interface was a good idea. I'm going back to apple's numbers.
Re:Programming breakthroughs we need by barnabee on Thursday August 18, 2022 @08:39AM (#32508768)
I don’t get the ribbon either, I keep it hidden and put everything I want on the quick access toolbar.