News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by metadat on Friday August 05, 2022 @07:04PM (#32362941)
Super informative article, with a lot of little insights, claims, and customer blames. Some are exceedingly fair, others are shirking responsibility on the seller's side. Still a great read!

1. > If an item is in good shape or really is new and just unwanted, the packaging is almost always damaged beyond what could be considered a new item, so at best we might be able to sell it in a damaged package sale, which we do twice per year.

It's generally difficult to open products without damaging the packaging.

This is an intentional design with consumer packaged goods, likely for a variety of valid reasons.

Doesn't seem like the customer's fault (and shouldn't be the customer's problem), as long as the customer is being honest and not pulling a fraudulent return.

2. > but the Pista has two little screws that you have to remove take the thing apart and when we looked, all of these returned pumps have had those screws unthreaded which you can see as deformation in the screw head, whereas a new in box pump has only had them installed.

Does this suggest the manufacturer is using sub-par zinc screws instead of stainless steel? So many products have cheap screws that basically can't be removed without stripping or deforming the head, it makes the product unserviceable and dooms it to eventually land in a landfill, prematurely. Seems unacceptable to call a product top-notch with these kinds of components inside.

Fraudulent returns are still bad, as are shoddy products falsely marketed and sold as top-notch gems.

3. > Folks think they’re pulling one over on Jeff Bezos but don’t understand Amazon doesn’t own that inventory, it belongs to companies and when you think you’re screwing Amazon you’re actually screwing directly with some smaller company behind the product.

This is 100% on Amazon, due to marketing things as "Amazon Prime" and "Sold and Fulfilled by Amazon". Nasty, because the customer signals get to be ignored by Amazon as they reap the profits and offload the problem downstream onto Little Companies.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by pstanger on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:52PM (#32363720)
Swiss cheese screws are annoying but trashing Silca's products based on a vague description of screw deformation is both a stretch and a red herring. It's irrelevant to the blatant fraud talked about in that section
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by compiler-guy on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:01PM (#32363772)
Especially given that the article has lots of descriptions about spare parts and servicability.

And assuming that the scammers take any care at all to do the job right when disassembling for fraud.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by loeg on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:03PM (#32364118)
Also, Silca’s stuff is high end. The supposition was completely off-base.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by manfre on Saturday August 06, 2022 @06:36AM (#32366812)
Sometimes fasteners are deemed single use consumables. Softer metals are used so that it will intentionally deform for a stronger/better mating.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by alistairSH on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:47PM (#32363687)
FWIW, these are some of the best pumps available. They last for decades and the company supplies all the rebuild parts (seals and stuff) to keep them running.

I imagine the screws in question just show extra tool marks from being backed out. Not that they’re stripped, just show obvious use.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by TheCondor on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:39PM (#32364305)
I like the new Silca and own some of their stuff and I also own a couple legit Silca pumps, they are different organizations though.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by alistairSH on Saturday August 06, 2022 @08:05AM (#32367355)
Sure, but the new owner (Josh Poertner, formerly an executive at Zipp, IIRC) appears genuinely interested in continuing the quality. The pumps still feel solid, use thick leather washers, built almost entirely of metal (looks like the only plastic is a few urethane gaskets), and are fully rebuildable.

To the sibling comment about it being run by hipsters, I’m not sure what to make of that. Poertner has an established background in product management in the industry. The stuff is expensive, orders of magnitude more than much of the competition. So, it’s going to appeal to a similar group as Pinarello, or Rapha, etc. A brand for dentists and other MAMILs, maybe (I say knowing full well I’m in that target audience).

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by yourapostasy on Saturday August 06, 2022 @03:28AM (#32365826)
Now if I could only find an industrial pump manufacturer of like quality, repairability and serviceability.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by stefan_ on Friday August 05, 2022 @09:06PM (#32363793)
"SILCA" are hipsters that bought the brand name in 2014. They haven't been making their pumps for even a sole decade.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by slaymaker1907 on Friday August 05, 2022 @08:04PM (#32363396)
I had to use the warranty on my phone and they sent it in a small, no nonsense box that I also used to send the old one back. All it had was a little plastic slip and some cardboard to keep the phone from moving too much. Companies could absolutely design things with reusable packaging.
Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by tekknik on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:25AM (#32375935)
> Companies could absolutely design things with reusable packaging.

They use non-reusable package on purpose, because customers try to scam them. It’s not that they can’t make reusable packaging, this is a feature for them.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by flutas on Saturday August 06, 2022 @12:55AM (#32364945)
> This is 100% on Amazon, due to marketing things as (...) "Sold and Fulfilled by Amazon".

That... isn't how it's labeled?

They clearly state "Sold by XYZ Company, Fulfilled by Amazon" on 3P sellers. The only time a product would say "Sold and Fulfilled by Amazon" is when it's actually Amazon selling a product.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by nkrisc on Saturday August 06, 2022 @09:07AM (#32367758)
“Clearly” as in the text does technically appear on the page. In my experience using the site my impression is that they would rather think I think of everything as being sold by Amazon.

Even though I know where the text is, I still have to search for it because there is so much information that can appear in that area and many variations that it’s difficult to tell at a glance who’s selling it.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by tekknik on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:23AM (#32375918)
> In my experience using the site my impression is that they would rather think I think of everything as being sold by Amazon.

Or maybe they want the experience to look the same whether you’re buying from amazon or a 3p? Perhaps to avoid confusing people by changing the layout? UX?

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by bayindirh on Saturday August 06, 2022 @03:55AM (#32365987)
> It's generally difficult to open products without damaging the packaging.

You're right, but the damage is not squarely due to customer or the packaging design. Some of the boxes arrive at my doorstep (from Amazon or what else) has clear shipping wear on it. It has banged around in the box, thrown around in an envelope, etc.

The box is worn, but the product is not damaged. Even I return the box unopened, the seller can't ship it back out. It needs to be renewed again.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by chiph on Saturday August 06, 2022 @08:05AM (#32367359)
> Does this suggest the manufacturer is using sub-par zinc screws instead of stainless steel?

Unlikely that Silca does that. What they probably were saying that they could see the tool marks where the screws had been removed. Tightening the screws leaves marks on one side of the screw, and loosening would leave marks on the other side.

Related: If you're buying a used car that uses rubber timing belts, and don't have solid documentation¹ that the belt was ever changed, you can look for tool marks on the timing cover bolts.

¹ There are people who will buy the timing belt parts kit then return it, in order to have a receipt to show prospective buyers that the work "had been done".

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by tekknik on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:27AM (#32375947)
> If you're buying a used car that uses rubber timing belts, and don't have solid documentation¹ that the belt was ever changed, you can look for tool marks on the timing cover bolts.

You can also just check the condition of the belt. Checking timing bolts for wear is not going to be an accurate measure of if the belt was replaced. (what if they had a head gasket replaced?)

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by anfilt on Saturday August 06, 2022 @05:42PM (#32371826)
There a lots of reasons a screw could be deformed from being removed other than being a cheap alloy.

They could have added lock-tite or other thread adhesive. The person removing the screw used the wrong size bit or did not apply pressure perpendicular to head when applying torque allowing it jump out of the screw head (drive angle is important!!!) Similar to a wrong size bit, screw driver bits do wear out. A worn out screw driver will act like a wrong sized bit, and this wear is likely to happen faster if the tool is cheap.

Re:Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its ret... by marcus0x62 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @03:28PM (#32379084)
> Does this suggest the manufacturer is using sub-par zinc screws instead of stainless steel?

No. It suggests people are removing the screws and leaving tool marks in the process.