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Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jchw on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:36AM (#32356707)
I mean, Gitlab is a web platform. It's pretty easy to test how it's going to work on different platforms without needing full machines. Heck, you can even just get Microsoft Edge binaries on macOS and Linux if you want to test Edge. But failing that, VMs are pretty sufficient.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by Diggsey on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:45AM (#32356862)
Tell that to the FE devs who add `overflow: scroll` everywhere and don't spot the problem...
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by Guid_NewGuid on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:06AM (#32357182)
God yes, I hate how all FEs have tunnel vision on MacOS nowadays. Our sign-up flow had godawful scrollbars both horizontally and vertically for the longest time but they didn't notice because they're all on retina display Macbooks instead of what the bulk of our users will be using.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by mmis1000 on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:44PM (#32359397)
Macos do have a option to always show scrollbar. And I think this is a pre-requirement to enable that if you ever care about what your user may actually see as a FE.

Besides that, there isn't actually obvious different between firefox/chrome/edge on macos/windows.

The most problematic one is actually safari(which is on mac only). If you dev on chrome and use on firefox or vise versus. You usually get a "mostly work with minor visual different". But safari… will give you a fail and are't even usable. It is outright the modern age ie.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by patrakov on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:34PM (#32364573)
In the past, I was able to reproduce a supposedly Safari-only issue using Epiphany on Linux. This browser uses a closely-related engine.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by wildmanx on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:29PM (#32359195)
A solution is to have somebody in each FE team with a "that's what the masses use" device. Screen-wise, CPU-wise, RAM-wise, network b/w wise. And let them use it as a primary dev device.

Doesn't sound sexy, no. Compensate them royaly. And make clear that they are superstars just by having this work environment. Then keep listening to what annoys them with whatever you are building, and let them fix it.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jchw on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:48AM (#32356908)
I agree with this nitpick. Unfortunately, I think we are losing that battle, because more platforms are adopting the hidden scrollbar (anti-)pattern.

That, however, is bound to happen even if you have Windows workstations. It happened at a job where I was, in fact, running Windows, because the designer ran macOS and was oblivious to this issue. (Of course, I would fix it when spotted. But it still managed to make it out to prod at times.)

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by Wowfunhappy on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:43PM (#32359384)
What's especially nuts about this to me is that macOS supports static scrollbars! System Preferences → General → Show Scroll Bars → Always.

Or, leave the default settings in place, but plug in a mouse with a physical scroll wheel.

So it's not even that they're only using one platform, but they're only testing the platform with default settings with the default hardware. And we're not even talking about an obscure setting buried three levels deep, it's right there in the general pane!

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by dreamcompiler on Friday August 05, 2022 @03:22PM (#32360744)
Or on the command line:

  sudo defaults write -g AppleShowScrollBars -string Always
I include this as part of my setup script for any new Mac.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by azangru on Friday August 05, 2022 @12:31PM (#32358433)
This can be fixed by toggling a single MacOS setting to make the scrollbars always visible so that FE devs can feel the pain they are causing to their non-Mac using customers. Can be included into onboarding process. No need for a real windows machine just on that account.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by Jcampuzano2 on Friday August 05, 2022 @01:43PM (#32359386)
This is one of the first things I always turn on with a new Mac. And I always encourage everyone on my teams to turn this on because otherwise it goes completely unnoticed until we get that huge surge of issues and product being angry because Windows users complain about it.

But I also place the blame on design teams. Most design teams I've worked with also doesn't account for this in anything they create. They usually only design for: 1: the latest macbook pro; and 2: the latest iPhone.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by hbn on Friday August 05, 2022 @12:04PM (#32358041)
I think YouTube comments have a bug like this right now. On Windows I frequently see a giant horizontal scrollbar across some comments that doesn't even move, or moves very little.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jakear on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:43AM (#32357772)
VM's are sufficient only if you want "idk, it runs kinda glitchy on the VM" to be the end of the conversation when Windows-specific bugs come up in dev. And "idk, works fine on the VM" when Windows-specific tickets come up in prod.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by CSSer on Friday August 05, 2022 @11:15AM (#32357340)
The binary is still platform specific. Chrome, for example, does not render identical select element menus across platforms and certain select style rules are interpreted differently across said platforms.

I'll give you a point on VMs but it's cumbersome. There's a big difference between rolling to another machine or asking someone in the department who uses that machine every day and waiting for a VM to finish booting or using a service like Browserstack (and both cost $$ anyway).

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by miki123211 on Friday August 05, 2022 @12:25PM (#32358355)
Not if you're doing any kind of accessibility testing, and considering they want to sell to the US government, they will have to at some point.

Screen readers are not consistent across platforms, and things that work on Windows sometimes don't work on other platforms, and vice versa.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jchw on Saturday August 06, 2022 @12:07AM (#32364744)
I have done this using virtual machines.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by ModernMech on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:41AM (#32356787)
Gitlab ships various ci runner executables for all platforms. I use their Windows ci runner and it works well, but I wonder how they test it without running windows.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jchw on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:45AM (#32356848)
This policy about which OS your laptop runs does not seem to preclude the use of Windows VMs (and presumably CI runners, though I bet we could see if that was the case ourselves) if it were needed. The open source nature of Gitlab also makes it easy for a developer to test things on an unprivileged personal device, I'd imagine.

If that was not enough, I believe the CI runner is written in the Go programming language, which has a surprisingly decent abstraction of OS functionality in it's standard library. Imperfect as it may be, I suspect that helps reduce the amount of effort needed to ensure individual platforms work properly.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by trelane on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:55AM (#32357021)
This is exactly how I used to operate. I'd develop on Linux then ensure it works on Windows in a VM.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by milkshakes on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:45AM (#32356853)
This is a policy for personal workstations. Presumably, there is a different policy for QA/CI environments.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by aikah on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:45AM (#32356858)
> Gitlab ships various ci runner executables for all platforms. I use their Windows ci runner and it works well, but I wonder how they test it without running windows.

Maybe with a Windows VM.

Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by bart_spoon on Friday August 05, 2022 @10:52AM (#32356986)
If that’s the case then Windows isn’t actually prohibited at Gitlab.
Re:Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab by jchw on Saturday August 06, 2022 @12:14AM (#32364777)
It is prohibited at Gitlab according to this policy. On developer laptops. It is not necessarily prohibited in all contexts. The one-line title could've been slightly clearer, but I think it's a totally fair statement.

The prohibition on developer laptops is not just a trivial or nitpicky detail; while the security of a VM obviously still matters, as you can't simply assume that malicious software in the VM can't escape, I would assume that the policy effectively means it would also be prohibited to setup a Linux dom0 and just run Windows under that and use it as your developer workspace. The benefit of only using Windows for testing is that you presumably won't be reading emails, talking on team chat, taking video calls, opening documents, etc. inside of Windows, only doing the thing you actually need (testing.) From a security standpoint, this can be helpful. I think that Windows vs Linux security is a rabbit hole not worth debating; both are very flawed and have many challenges, nothing is a panacea. However, I would say that every OS you don't need to harden is a huge operational advantage no matter how you slice it. You effectively cut off an entire slice of the malware market, and easily the largest slice in case of Windows.