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Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:24AM (#32284478)
> Annual cases of theft in San Francisco are down 33% from where they were in 2017, according to San Francisco police data, but a national retail security survey found that shoplifting was at an all-time high in 2020, costing the industry an estimated $61.7 billion. Such crimes are part of what’s led 80% of San Franciscans to feel increasingly unsafe, according to a survey from the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce.

The other part is articles like this, that find a way to make it seem like people are especially at risk even though crime is at a historic low.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by buscoquadnary on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:43AM (#32284553)
This was exactly what was predicted after the a bunch of public officials started stating their intention to no longer prosecute crimes.

They said people will stop reporting crimes because there is no point, and then people will point to the reduction in reported crime as proof that crime is down.

It turns out people stop reporting when they no one will get prosecuted and the cops won't do anything because they know there is no point in arresting criminals.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:51AM (#32284592)
What do you mean, they “know there’s no point in arresting criminals”? The point is that it’s their job. They literally get paid to do it. If my employer pays me for a certain amount of work and decides to only use half of it, I don’t thereafter get to only do half the work because there’s “no point” in doing the rest.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by bagels on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:01AM (#32284637)
That's not how police departments are run.

"Chief Anthony Batts listed exactly 44 situations that his officers will no longer respond to and they include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism. He says if you live and Oakland and one of the above happens to you, you need to let police know on-line."

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/suffer-these-crimes-in...

Guess what happens when you fill in a form online? Maybe it turns in to an entry in a database, but that might be the end of it.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by saghm on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:32AM (#32284795)
That appears to be an article from 12 years ago, and the quote is about downsizing in the police department. I feel like I'd need to see a citation that this policy is still in effect before I could even begin the consider the real issue about whether this is just maneuvering in a political battle or an actual lack of proper funding to be able to handle those crimes.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by bagels on Saturday July 30, 2022 @12:56PM (#32288284)
The point is that the police departments face constraints (budgetary, management, laziness, etc.) such that many crimes and police reports simply are not investigated at all.

Some first hand examples: The four times my car was stolen, no investigation or arrest, including the one time I even was able to give them the name of one of the people who did it.

Usually they don't explicitly announce these policies because they are unpopular, but every police department has some threshold beyond which they do nothing.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @03:44PM (#32289667)
Management and laziness aren’t really “constraints”. Police know they can simply refuse to perform the job they’re ostensibly paid to do — and not only will there be no consequences, but people will even demand they get more money.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:07AM (#32284668)
Okay, and what’s their excuse for that? Again, they’re literally paid to respond to those crimes. What is the point of police if they’re ignoring reports?
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by bartvk on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:24AM (#32284744)
There’s a budget, and they prioritize certain crimes. I feel it’s how police departments are run everywhere. My home was burglarized some years ago. The police in Utrecht will not come if you call them, it’s an insurance case. However, in my case I was at home, and there was a fight. In that case, it’s not just burglary, but home invasion, and when my partner called, police arrived with three cars in about 5 minutes.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:26AM (#32284756)
Sure, but the claim here isn’t that police don’t have the budget to respond. It’s that they’re not bothering to do their jobs because they think it’s “pointless”.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by sershe on Saturday July 30, 2022 @06:06AM (#32285575)
I would actually love for police to harass thieves even if prosecutors, in the end, would refuse to prosecute them. If nothing else, many criminals are dumb; they might do something dumb while interacting with police and either get prosecuted for that, or get put down on the spot.

However, the problem of prioritization by police is exactly that. Police could be doing any number of things; if the outcome of arresting someone is nothing happens, literally any other remaining work, including the kind that could be expanded a lot - e.g. patrolling - becomes higher priority. But ofc Seattle police for example is so under-staffed that they have trouble with 911 calls and sexual assault investigation backlog.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by genocidicbunny on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:18AM (#32284713)
> Again, they’re literally paid to respond to those crimes.

Eh, this part is dubious. They have no duty to protect, and no duty to respond to a crime.

> What is the point of police if they’re ignoring reports?

Lots of people asking this question lately. It's a good one.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by int_19h on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:23AM (#32284740)
That's the whole point of the system. Your reports are ignored, but when it hurts the bottom line of someone actually important, then:

"Breed has repeatedly promised to catch the perpetrators and even incentivized residents with up to $100,000 rewards for information leading to arrests."

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:27AM (#32284759)
Like they say, not their job anymore. Sort it out yourself.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:29AM (#32284781)
That’s a good argument for defunding the police. If it’s not their job, I certainly don’t want my tax money paying them to not do it.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by josephcsible on Saturday July 30, 2022 @03:47PM (#32289681)
There's more work for police departments to do than there is time to do it all. Arresting shoplifters gets deprioritized when everyone knows they'll all be immediately released.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jl6 on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:43AM (#32284848)
How do we know the crimes are still occurring if people have stopped reporting crimes?
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by josephcsible on Saturday July 30, 2022 @03:49PM (#32289693)
Videos of the crimes taking place.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by happyopossum on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:35AM (#32284515)
How do you conclude that crime is at a “historic low” from that? Comparing cases from police data is only half of the story, as a ton of crime isn’t reported in San Francisco, as any theft less than $1k isn’t prosecutable.

The survey of retailers is much more reliable a data point, and it says the exact opposite of what you claim.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by inferiorhuman on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:43AM (#32284552)
The felony threshold in California is $950. In Texas it's like $2,500. Below that theft is a misdemeanor which typically means they're eligible for incarceration of up to one year. It's pretty difficult to prosecute people that the cops don't arrest.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:45AM (#32284560)
Do you think the companies that insure these stores will just trust that something has been stolen if the store didn’t report it to the police?
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by pseudo0 on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:56AM (#32284613)
There is no point in insuring against a predictable cost of doing business. An insurer would simply charge a premium equal to the expected amount of theft, plus a margin for their profit and the (small) risk they are taking. For the many retail stores where insurance doesn't make sense, filing a police report is just extra wasted time and effort if it won't result in any tangible results.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by refurb on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:01AM (#32284638)
You think stores buy insurance against shoplifting?

You think insurers offer it? How much do you think it would cost?

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by Ekaros on Saturday July 30, 2022 @04:50AM (#32285302)
My estimate for the cost is on average more than the shoplifting costs... Plus all the administrative work.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by refurb on Saturday July 30, 2022 @04:51AM (#32285319)
The correct answer is - it would be prohibitively expensive to get insurance for shoplifting, so shops don't have any. They just take the hit as "shrinkage".
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by khuey on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:40AM (#32284533)
> any theft less than $1k isn’t prosecutable.

It absolutely is, the cops and the DA just choose not to give a shit.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by lazide on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:29AM (#32284496)
reported crime. Most folks gave up years ago, anecdotally.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @01:41AM (#32284544)
This article isn’t talking about individuals, though. What would be the disincentive to retail stores reporting theft? There are presumably insurance benefits even if they don’t think the police will recover it or apprehend someone.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by lazide on Saturday July 30, 2022 @11:04AM (#32287322)
Retail stores generally were the first to give up:

1) reporting takes time at the staff level, significant time. Which they have to pay for, compounding the losses. I’ve seen security footage, and in some cases it was literally constant. They’d need full time staff just to call the police and report, assuming the cops would even show up if they did that.

2) they can write off the stolen inventory at 100% anyway, and most of them are self insured against this stuff. ‘Shrinkage’ is a normal business operating cost anyway, it’s the scale of it at some of these locations that is nuts.

3) a number of larger chains just gave up and pulled out of the worse areas, and made very public statements about it and why. [https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/theft-plagued-walgre...]

Anecdotally, I was at a Best Buy in the east bay picking someone up. Not a bad area. And one of the fire alarms went off on an emergency exit and I saw someone dart out with something. The staff member just reset the alarm, sighed, and continued helping me. No attempt to do anything else. I asked what was going on and they said shoplifting, and that it happens all the time.

Last year I was picking up a small generator at a Home Depot in San Jose - not a bad area - and they had to go into a locked area to get it - they said that was because people would load up a cart with generators and tools and just walk out with them. Nothing they could do, and it was a daily occurrence so now they keep things locked up.

Pretty sad frankly.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by simoncion on Saturday July 30, 2022 @05:31PM (#32290538)
> The staff member just reset the alarm, sighed, and continued helping me. No attempt to do anything else.

It has been my understanding that for like at _least_ fifteen, twenty years major retailers have had a "Do not attempt to physically stop shoplifters." policy. The opinions I heard were split on whether it was to protect against an injury suit file by the thief if he were injured during the detention, or having to pay a _ton_ if an employee got seriously injured during the detention. (Source: talking to friends who worked on the floor for major retailers at the start of the century.)

TBH, it smells like both to me.

Anyway, all this is to say that retailers haven't been _physically_ restraining thieves walking out of their stores for quite some time... but that doesn't _necessarily_ mean that they've stopped reporting the thefts. (Indeed, the SF Mayor's Office's crowing about retrieving items from Retail Theft Rings suggests that -at minimum- a subset of the affected retailers _do_ report thefts.)

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by jakelazaroff on Saturday July 30, 2022 @03:47PM (#32289682)
Re: 3, Walgreens’ claim that they closed the stores in San Francisco due to shoplifting is famously a lie: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/walgreens-to-shut-200-s...
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by Ekaros on Saturday July 30, 2022 @04:52AM (#32285325)
And if retail theft was daily occurrence, how much would you charge as insurer to insure against it? Less than the damages? I think if you started to offer that sort of business there would be lot and lot of takers.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:37AM (#32284821)
For general retail, there is no point to insurance for predictable recurring costs. If you get robbed for 1000 a week, you just add it to your budget.

This is differ if you have rare theft of high price items.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by toast0 on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:04AM (#32284654)
Reporting comes at a cost to the store. They've got to have their personnel working on it, possibly managerial staff, and they've got a lot of other things to do, and staffing shortages, etc. If reporting doesn't result in police actions that reduce future theft, it seems like it's a waste.

If retail theft is as endemic as reporting would seem to indicate, I don't know how they could get insurance for 'petty' theft anyway, so a police report isn't likely to be useful. Likely their business insurance has higher deductibles anyway, so it's more useful for major theft or damage, not for smaller claims.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by Scoundreller on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:24AM (#32284745)
I'm surprised chain/mass market retailers permit that.

I'd think HQ would want a police report for missing stock, otherwise they're going to think you took it yourself. It'll be a useless online police report, but you have a # to reference about missing stock XYZ.

Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:33AM (#32284801)
There are a lot of alternatives to a police report. Internal reports on what was stolen is a lot easier.
Re:SF’s Black Market Thrives Off Retail Theft by ratchetbob on Saturday July 30, 2022 @02:20AM (#32284722)
Living in SF, I experience someone shoplifting from Walgreens at least once a month. Many things require calling someone to unlock an item. (Target has locks on $20 pants!)