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Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by chrisseaton on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:15PM (#32243387)
Presumably it's reasonable because it's supported by market conditions?
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by BobLaw on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:31PM (#32243584)
Something being "supported by market conditions" is not a valid test for reasonableness. During disasters for example, all manner of unethical practices can be "supported by market conditions". Yet we enact laws against those things for good reason.

You also seem to forget the fact that much of those market conditions are a result of anti-competitive and anti-consumer laws guaranteeing their the status a middle men by force.

If for example consumers were able to buy directly from manufacturers but chose to pay more at a dealership because they thought the extra cost was worth some surplus value provided then you might have a point.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by kcplate on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @07:15PM (#32245256)
When market conditions dropped the price of gas in 2020 to record levels because demand was so low and supplies were high, I didn’t see people claiming we shouldn’t let gas stations do that because it enticed people to buy gas.
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by wing-_-nuts on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:35PM (#32243632)
You seem very intent on defending this sort of behavior. I wonder why?

In my not so humble opinion, while the used market can do what it may, MSRP is MSRP. This goes for GPUs as much as it goes for cars. I understand shortages. I am ok with waiting lists. I do not appreciate profiteering. Any dealership that tried to stick me with such a markup not only would blow the sale, but would not get my business in the future.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by chrisseaton on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:52PM (#32243840)
> I wonder why?

I guess I don't get why people think they should be immune from paying a market price.

When you negotiate salary do you go for the most you can negotiate? Or do you accept minimum wage because someone somewhere suggested it to you? Why do you think any other transaction should be different? It's a brand new luxury SUV, it's not baby milk.

> MSRP is MSRP

Guess what... the MSRP includes profit (gasp!). As much profit as they thought they could get away with when it was set.

> Any dealership that tried to stick me with such a markup not only would blow the sale, but would not get my business in the future.

Ok so great this already limits how much they can charge. I guess someone else somewhere is willing the pay the price though, or they wouldn't charge it.

I think your logic is basically 'I don't want to pay that much'. Ok well they don't want to sell it for less, and it's their property. You'll have to go elsewhere. Sounds like you're happy with that so what's the problem?

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by kcplate on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @07:33PM (#32245374)
> Any dealership that tried to stick me with such a markup not only would blow the sale, but would not get my business in the future.

Which is a completely valid reaction and the risk the dealership takes, and ultimately when the price rises to the point where they no longer attract buyers, the market corrects. That will be soon as the fed raises interest rates.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by dragonwriter on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:39PM (#32243670)
> In my not so humble opinion, while the used market can do what it may, MSRP is MSRP.

The S stands for “suggested”, and that suggestion is based on an inherently fallible prediction of future market conditions.

> I do not appreciate profiteering.

Capitalism is profiteering. The MSRP is profiteering. The only difference is who is profiteering, and when.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by gweinberg on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:23PM (#32243483)
Market conditions explain the higher price, but why does the extra money go to the dealership rather than the manufacturer? I think something other than the market is at work here.
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by chrisseaton on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:25PM (#32243510)
> why does the extra money go to the dealership rather than the manufacturer?

Because my understanding is they own the cars, once they're delivered from the manufacturer. They own the asset.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by greedo on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @07:15PM (#32245255)
It's because they're collecting rents from having state legislation pretty much guarantee they're the only way to buy a car brand (other than Tesla). And though collusion might be hard to prove, it's pretty obvious to a shopper that the price transparency from the Internet is just as potent a weapon for dealers as it is for shoppers.
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by JakeAl on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:39PM (#32243678)
People are also buying up all the inventory of available cars and flipping them at CarMax for a profit. Look on CarMax and you see loads of brand new cars with 3-6K markup. That's who the dealerships are competing with.
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by charcircuit on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:34PM (#32243623)
>but why does the extra money go to the dealership rather than the manufacturer?

Because the manaufacturer decided to not raise the price. This means the next person now has the ability to raise the price.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by oneoff786 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:22PM (#32243463)
Market conditions by an enforced middle man
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by chrisseaton on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:28PM (#32243544)
The market conditions are set by the number of people trying to buy the cars and how much they're willing to pay.

The dealership meets the market price, not sets it. If their fee was unreasonable people would buy other cars until the dealer dropped their prices to something reasonable.

Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by scottyah on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @04:48PM (#32243776)
People don’t want to buy other cars just because the dealers are colluding and raising the prices despite adding no value. When they do decide to avoid a car just because of the leeching dealerships, it hurts the manufacturer too
Re:Toyota RAV4 Prime hybrid SUV now selling for 48% over MSRP by oneoff786 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @06:24PM (#32244857)
If you’re an emotionless rationalist sure