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Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by mehdix on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:36AM (#32163767)
Is this potentially breaking apple's walled garden? I wonder wether they will comply at all. Besides, I'm glad to see interoperability mentioned there, perhaps one day we could text from one messenger to another one without being held back by the owner.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ls15 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @07:55AM (#32164434)
> Is this potentially breaking apple's walled garden? I wonder wether they will comply at all.

They will or there will be a repetition of Microsoft Corp. v. Commission, but with much higher fines.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by Gareth321 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:56AM (#32163926)
It depends what you mean by walled garden. If you're referring to their ability to secure iOS, then no. The legislation includes many exceptions for security purposes; but they must be demonstrable and genuine. The current iOS implementation already sandboxes applications and only provides limited permissions ad hoc, according to user approval. So even under the current architecture, allowing users to install applications doesn't undermine security.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @08:25AM (#32164733)
> I wonder wether they will comply at all.

Of course they will try not to. They will do everything to prolong the appeal process and so on - it's unthinkable they would allow any other app store on their devices, that's the very core of their identity - to be as closed and unified as possible. I don't believe the EU has enough power to fight Apple. I'll believe it when I see the first iPhone with an USB-C charger.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ko27 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:46AM (#32166493)
> I don't believe the EU has enough power to fight Apple

Of course they do. EU Commission, with parlament and member state approval (which they have), has supreme sovereign power over these matters. Market regulation is basically the main point of EU. Because it's a new targeted law, Apple has zero chance of appealing this to a higher court.

Thank god that companies don't have "power" over countries and sovereign bodies. I don't want to live in a cyberpunk world.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by visarga on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @12:09PM (#32167823)
> I don't want to live in a cyberpunk world.

Snow Crash was like that, companies > countries.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ethbr0 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:01AM (#32165157)
The other side of the coin is "Does Apple have enough brand goodwill to spend it on X years of 'Apple fights EU to keep monopoly' news articles?"

Kind of hard to claim you're all unicorns and rainbows, when you're actively involved in a court case to defend anti-user practices...

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:07AM (#32165994)
I think you underestimate them. Off the top of my head:

1. EU bureaucrats are threatening one of the most successful business models ever.

2. Jealous EU tries to punish successful American tech companies as they can't compete with them in the market.

3. The EU attempts to lower the value of tech stock, threatening pensions of millions of Americans.

4. Apple will need to fire thousands if the malicious plan of EU bureaucrats succeeds.

Etc. etc.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by toyg on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:45AM (#32167418)
1. Who cares, it's an American company contributing very little to the EU market - in fact, siphoning billions of euros to tax havens

2. see point 1

3. see point 1

4. see point 1

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by dodobirdlord on Thursday July 21, 2022 @01:49AM (#32176189)
The EU has a bunch of reciprocal trade agreements with the USA to not engage in punitive harassment of each other’s companies. Of course they still can, but that’s what’s called a “trade war” and it’s generally not a good thing for all involved. Public perception of these changes in the US is also very important, since if the US government chooses to view these actions as punitive harassment calculatedly targeted only at US companies, it will respond with tariffs etc on EU goods.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by unity1001 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @05:19AM (#32177247)
> but that’s what’s called a “trade war”

Yeah. That has been going on since 2005, and the US started it. It even adopted the whitepapers of think-thanks that advocated that exact trade war, elaborating how to sink the Eu's economy. This has been escalating since then.

This law basically says that the Eu is going full-out.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by jeltz on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @02:37PM (#32170266)
1. Yes, and they do not care.

2. If true that is an argument in favor of the EU. That means no member countries will undermine the act.

3. The EU buteacrats do not care.

4. The EU buteacrats do not care.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by frostburg on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:46AM (#32167432)
They have to convince the EU power structure, which truly doesn't care about any of that on any level.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by dvfjsdhgfv on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @01:59PM (#32169722)
It would seem so, yes. But in fact they need to convince the US government that the issue is worth exercising some pressure on the EU. And the USA has a wide array of options here.

When Chelsea Manning released her cables, there were too many of them for any journalist to read or even glance not to mention understanding what is going on. But I spent several weeks grepping and reading many fragments. My conclusion is that the US government cares a lot about their business in other countries, especially in Europe. Ambassadors reported a great deal about how things are going for American companies, what threats are (like European citizens realizing what's better for them), how to neutralize them and so on.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by unity1001 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @05:21AM (#32177259)
If the US was able to exert sufficient influence on the Eu, the trade war that the US itself started in 2005 would not reach such a point in which the Eu basically placed a kick in the balls of the US tech monopolies.

Which should never have happened and those companies should have never been let to dominate the Internet and everyone's lives to this extent. Especially considering how they are private tyrannies that decide whatever is the best for them, not their users.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by unity1001 on Thursday July 21, 2022 @05:18AM (#32177242)
Wow. All of those points that you listed ARE the reasons why nobody in Europe will take Apple's side when left-wing European MPs start telling their constituents about all those stuff.

Actually they do - thats the reason why that law was passed. That kind of thing may fly in the US, but not elsewhere.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by dvfjsdhgfv on Friday July 22, 2022 @03:01AM (#32189329)
Of course. But these points aren't aimed at the EU (they don't have a leg to stand on, at most they can say they need more time but they can't really find good arguments against the new law). The way I see it, Apple has 3 options:

1) Appeal to infinity, using all resources they can.

2) Comply but make things so difficult for the user that they effectively retain the control over the device as before. (Anybody remembers browserchoice.eu?)

3) Convince the US government the law goes too far and they should intervene. Given the war in Ukraine, it would be extremely easy to convince the countries bordering with Russia, Belarus and Ukraine they should support the USA in this case.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by iainmerrick on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:28AM (#32167171)
I don't think USB-C is a good yardstick. Apple could (and I think should) move to USB-C voluntarily. They already switched laptops and tablets over to USB-C, and most phone peripherals these days are wireless, so why should phones stick with Lightning?
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by parasense on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:46AM (#32166487)
> Besides, I'm glad to see interoperability mentioned there, perhaps one day we could text from one messenger to another one without being held back by the owner.

By forcing message passing platforms to submit to sharing private encryption keys? And that interoperability entailing the possibility of passing messages to government eavesdropping schemes? Sounds like a utopian paradise!

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by idle_zealot on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @12:02PM (#32167699)
> forcing message passing platforms to submit to sharing private encryption keys?

Why assume that requirement? For E2E encrypted messaging services all that needs to be shared are public keys for interoperability to work.

In the case of middleman encrypted messaging you already trust the provider not to sell you out. If they interoperate then you trust N providers, where N is the number of providers engaged in a particular chat thread.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by mrbombastic on Friday July 22, 2022 @10:42PM (#32199753)
You say this like it is not a big deal, I trust Apple much more than I trust Meta with my messages. Apple has made privacy a cornerstone of their sales pitch, Meta not so much. N=2 is too many.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by zaik on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @12:55PM (#32168617)
Take a look at OMEMO (Signal encryption protocol for the XMPP internet standard). Interoperability and E2EE are not exclusive at all.