Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by fatbird on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:57AM (#32118772)

If ALU gets over 50% of employees to sign the card, they can bypass a vote and declare themselves the union and petition for recognition of such to the NLRB (which will grant it unless Amazon can demonstrate malfeasance somehow). It’s a common tactic by unions and a common response by employers is to carefully but thoroughly explain this tactic to employees—-which they’re allowed to do, but it’s totally illegal to say “DON’T SIGN THE CARD” so it’s a tightrope to walk. When it happened at a facility at which I worked, the HR director read a script, showed a video, took no questions, and videotaped the entire thing to ensure that he could prove it was done legally.

Of course, this is Amazon we’re talking about, so they may just go for it and plan to clean up the mess later. Walmart got away with that approach for decades.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by whimsicalism on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:24AM (#32119027)

Yeah, if they can get 50% of employees on legal record saying they support the union, it is obvious that they don't need an election.

Your language, IMO, is value-laden. Card-signing is a common "tactic" for unions like the presidential election is a "tactic" for deciding the next president.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by mh- on Saturday July 16, 2022 @01:00PM (#32119857)

Election votes are anonymous by nature. Card signing is not.

I'm not opposed to unionizing but I take issue with the idea that getting 50% support means "it is obvious that they don't need an election."

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by kennywinker on Saturday July 16, 2022 @01:25PM (#32120062)

It seems like you’re saying the lack of anonymity will inflate support for a union. I.e. organizers will be able to pressure people who would otherwise vote no on a union. Frankly, I’d be worried about the opposite. Knowing how aggressively amazon is fighting unions, if I worked there i’d hesitate to put my name down on paper - when I wouldn’t hesitate to vote in a secret ballot. If that’s the case, 50% support implies a stronger majority.

Maybe that’s not always the case, but that’s what I’d guess is happening in this case.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by AnimalMuppet on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:19PM (#32120530)

Historically, there have been times when intimidation came from the union. There have also been times when intimidation came from management. So, yeah. Secret ballot.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by kennywinker on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:27PM (#32120575)

> People call the current National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) election system a secret ballot election—but in fact it's not like any democratic election held anywhere else in our society. It's really a management-controlled election process because corporations have all the power. They control the information workers can receive and routinely poison the process by intimidating, harassing, coercing and even firing people who try to organize unions.

(via https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_check)

Without reforming the secret ballot process, you’re just handing power to the companies by advocating against card-checks

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by mh- on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:31PM (#32120605)

(That quote comes from the AFL-CIO, not Wikipedia editors, for the curious.)

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by kennywinker on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:48PM (#32120773)

Almost put that in, but it seemed like it was clear from the tone that it’s a quote. If that felt misleading I apologize

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by danaris on Sunday July 17, 2022 @11:43AM (#32127793)

There have indeed, historically, been cases where a union threw its weight around, bullied, and abused people.

However, a huge percentage of companies today are actively doing these things to their workers, and if you selected 10 companies at random where there were unionization efforts, I'd bet you money that in at least 9 of them, management was doing everything they could legally, and probably some things that are questionable or outright illegal, to try to prevent unionization.

Stop the "both sides"-ism. It's disingenuous and detrimental to genuine understanding of the situation.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by whimsicalism on Monday July 18, 2022 @06:01PM (#32144541)

The vast majority of union elections result in more votes for the union than cards signed. It is extremely rare for the number of cards signed to be a higher share than the vote.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by mh- on Saturday July 16, 2022 @01:27PM (#32120078)

Probably both! That's why we shouldn't guess, and votes are secret for a reason.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by kennywinker on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:23PM (#32120551)

Ah yes, let’s make a rule that makes a difficult process (unionization) for a vulnerable group (workers) more difficult, based on a vague theory about imagined pressure being applied. Sounds like solid reasoning to me.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by fatbird on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:31AM (#32119086)

I am 100% behind Amazon employees unionizing, and I wish unionization was far more widespread. I wasn’t trying to impugn unions using the legitimate process to achieve legitimate ends.

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Re:Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards by egh on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:09PM (#32119405)

That is simply not true. That could be the case in the near future (https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/how-the-nlr...) but it is simply not true now. Amazon can always force a vote if 50% of members of the unit sign a card.

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