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Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by febeling on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:40AM (#32067099)
I also find it odd to think differing names of places in a foreign language as butchering. I like how München (Munich) is called Monaco in Italian.

But if we do think it's butchering, why don't we refer to Germans as Deutsche in English, call the country Deutschland instead of Germany?

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by MonkeyClub on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:19AM (#32067440)
> why don't we refer to Germans as Deutsche in English, call the country Deutschland instead of Germany?

Because the Germans aren’t throwing a fit about how other countries are addressing them in their languages, while the Turks currently are.

Given how Turkey currently has insane inflation and internal political turmoil with Erdogan’s opposition rising, there’s a line of thought that has war as the only way to maintain power for Erdogan, much like how a coup solidified his power in 2016.

Turkey’s neighbors probably should start feeling like Ukraine before February, or like Poland before September 1939.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by jcranmer on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @08:30AM (#32068874)
Some other fun country butcherings: Magyarország, Hrvatska, Suomi, Ellada. For which the English names are the oh-so-obvious Hungary, Croatia, Finland, and Greece. I haven't even left Europe yet!
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by gkanai on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:51AM (#32067217)
Same thing with Japan. Japanese call the country Nippon.
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by frivoal on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @08:27AM (#32068843)
Or, more commonly, Nihon. Nippon is more emphatic, which is occasionally taken to make it sound more nationalistic.
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by amilios on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:02PM (#32075641)
Interesting! In Greek Munich is also Μόναχο (Monacho/Monaco).
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by korlja on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:43AM (#32067599)
Forget towns. Talk about the fucking name of the country.

Actually, the name is "Deutschland" (if you leave out the political decorations declaring it a federal republic).

One should think, knowing where the word comes from, that the english name would be "Dutchland". But it isn't, instead they call someone else "Dutch". Admittedly a neighbouring country with some shared history and origins waaay back then, but still. Tyskland is great, thanks to everyone using a variation of that.

Then there is "Germany". Way back then, when the romans tried and failed to establish a longterm presence on the other side of the rivers rhine and danube that might have been ok, but that was 2000 years ago. For at least the last 500 years, "deutsch" or some variation thereof was official. Germans are also only part of the historic inhabitants of what forms modern-day Germany, there are also a few Slavic tribes in there. Also, there are many German tribes that didn't settle in what is modern-day Germany, instead they now form the nordic states, the Netherlands, parts of Switzerland and Austria. So mostly wrong, no fish.

Alemania is even more wrong, because that actually only talks about the southwestern german tribes, in current southwest Germany and northeastern Switzerland. "Alemannisch" strictly only describes the traditions of that region in german. Nothing else.

Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves?

Talking about insults: Saksa might be considered a compliment or an insult in Germany, depending on where you are. Historically, saxon tribes settled in the northwest (later England, but that is not relevant here). This corresponds to a part of what currently is the German land Niedersachsen. There are two Länder that are called something with "sachsen", but they are faking it to get a grab at the former glory. Talking about "glory", it is quite the opposite in southern Germany, there nobody likes "Sachsen" and considers them the worst kind of "Preussen". Which are all considered insults there.

There are a few others, getting more and more weird until: Navajo: Béésh Bich’ahii Bikéyah ("Metal Cap-wearer Land"), in reference to Stahlhelm-wearing German soldiers.[1] I can get behind that. But the rest, please stop it, it is "Deutschland". Or I might have to wear my metal cap again ;)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by orbital-decay on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:08AM (#32068175)
>Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves?

It was a common name for all foreigners, not just Germans. During a certain era, German traders were the most common foreigners in Slavic lands, so the name stuck with Germans.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by NeoTar on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @09:24AM (#32069536)
I love how it's a similar origin story to the word 'Barbarian' - deriving from anyone who wasn't Greek, and so whose language sounded like "baa-baa baa-baa"
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by Joker_vD on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @08:28AM (#32068858)
Yes, and Finns don't call their country "Finland" — Finnish language, after all, doesn't uses "f" natively — they call it "Suomi" and they call Russia "Venäjä" (even though Wends really don't have much to do with it). So what? Names are arbitrary, especially names in different languages, that's just how they are.

As the Russian proverb says, "you can call me even 'kettle', just don't put me on the stove".

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by usr1106 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @08:42AM (#32069003)
The first prize goes to the French, though.

They call their country France, named after the Germanic tribe of the Franks. Only in Asterix they remember that their country should be called Gaul.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by NeoTar on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @09:22AM (#32069529)
The Germanic tribe who invaded and conquered the lands currently known as France, forming (at least) the aristocracy and then naming it after themselves? Isn't that a reasonable name for the country? I mean, it also happened in England (i.e. land of the Angles) - which historically would have been Britannia when France was Gaul.
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by kergonath on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:16PM (#32072099)
> They call their country France, named after the Germanic tribe of the Franks.

You mean, the Germans who call it “Frankreich”?

There were several Frankish tribes, who occupied over the years regions from Thuringia all the way to Gascony. You might have heard of Clovis, king of the Franks, baptised at Reims and who made Paris the capital of his kingdom, and founded the Frankish Merovingian dynasty that ruled almost all of what is France now for 2 centuries. Gauls had been heavily romanised well before that point anyway.

You should probably read a bit in a subject before trying to be clever.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by int_19h on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @06:54PM (#32076826)
Eh. The name "Bulgaria" derives from Bulgars, who were a nomadic Turkic tribe from areas around the Caspian Sea that came to conquer the country.

For another example, the name "Russia" is derived from "Rus", which itself appears to be a derivative of the Norse "Ruslaw" - again, because it was the Norse who came, conquered, and became the ruling elite.

Basically, it happened all the time.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by usrusr on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @09:08AM (#32069310)
> There are two Länder that are called something with "sachsen", but they are faking it to get a grab at the former glory.

Let me guess: the one of the three Länder that are called something with "sachsen" that you forget is Niedersachsen, even despite spelling it out literally one word before that sentence! Being born in the only saxon capital of the of the country I was born in I've made a habit out of confusing saxons from the east by claiming that I'm one of them, never gets old.

(yeah, and I was close to posting that wiki link myself, so happy that nobody has started referring to the country by what it's most famous for)

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by saiya-jin on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:54AM (#32067243)
I'd strongly prefer is this 'butchering' would be happening only in cases the original name is literally un-pronounciable in given language.

But no, everybody must be pissing on their little sandbox - Neuchatel has to be Neuburg, although both are perfectly pronounciable in both languages. US has to be États-Unis. Practically every effin' language has this.

I'd say using original names and how they sound shows some proper respect towards given place, country, people, culture and its history. Shows you actually make some effort, and also shows having some class. But I can only wish this was a widespread opinion.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by andybak on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:08AM (#32067359)
For the record, I'm fairly sure how to pronounce Neuburg but much less confident I'd get Neuchatel correct.
Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by gumby on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @08:34AM (#32068927)
Especially when the circumflex has been left out so you have no reminder of how used to be written and pronounced.

États-Unis is quite respectful as it literally describes how the country wants to be considered: United States. It is only if you don’t find the term meaningful that way you would want someone to uncomprehendingly parrot the sounds.

Re:ISO name change for Türkiye by ars on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @01:48PM (#32073432)
In Hebrew, India is called Hodu, which seems to be a name unique to Hebrew (although with quite ancient origins).