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Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by hirundo on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:29PM (#32058307)
When I was a kid I "won" a Stratego game with a non-move that my friend claimed was against the rules. So he claimed the win. Could I get an umpire's call here?

The issue is that when considering my next move, I picked up the bomb piece, thought for a few moments, put it back down, and moved another piece. My friend then, assuming that I had just given away that it was not a bomb, attempted to capture it, and lost the attacker.

He claimed that it was illegal to pick up that piece and put it down again, although he had no objection until he learned that I'd tricked him. We had never previously announced or enforced a touch-it-move-it rule.

So did I win that game or did he? That's not a question machine learning could answer.

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by aidenn0 on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:54PM (#32058629)
Official ISF tournament rules[1] say:

> Touching one of his own pieces does not oblige a player to move it.

It also says:

> Psychology, bluff and misleading manoeuvres are considered important aspects of Stratego. Bluffing consists of all verbal communication (talking) or non-verbal communication (acting, mimic or feign) which is intended to mislead your opponent. All forms of bluff are allowed at any time during the game, unless prohibited by any other rule. Abuse will be considered unsporting behaviour and can be penalized accordingly.

So I think you won.

1: https://isfstratego.kleier.net/docs/rulreg/isfgamerules.pdf

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by toast0 on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:11PM (#32060400)
I agree

> 5.2 Moving

> Flag and Bombs are never moved (For the definition of „move‟: see chapter 6).

Chapter 6 shows the sequences of moves, and then Chapter 7 says:

> A move is made when:

> a piece is released on another square than the starting one, or

> a player touches an opponent‟s piece with one of his own pieces or with the hand in which his own piece is held.

So if the piece was picked up and replaced on the starting square, it was not moved, and that's fine.

On the other hand, these rules incorporate some other rules by reference which includes:

> The bombs and the flag may never be moved and therefore remain in the same place throughout the duration of the game

A bomb hasn't exactly remained in the same place if it's been picked up, has it?

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by TemplateRex on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:41PM (#32060799)
In actual live game play, none of the top players use such kids' ploys as touching bombs pretending to be moveable pieces. Actual game play wouldn't change if the one touch move rule from chess or checkers were to be introduced.

The main thing the rules guard against is accidentally tripping over your opponent's or your own pieces. Especially during time trouble, it sometimes happens that you drop a piece. If your opponent reveals < 4 of your pieces, you can exchange all of them with any other of your pieces. With >= 4 "accidents", it's an automatic forfeit. If you tip over your opponent's flag, he is entitled to 3 swaps (may or may not be bombs).

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by aidenn0 on Monday July 11, 2022 @05:48PM (#32062421)
I always wondered if the pieces could be redesigned to have a strong bias towards landing "face down" when bumped; I've definitely accidentally revealed pieces before when making a quick move.
Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by HWR_14 on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:46PM (#32058524)
You won because "He claimed that it was illegal to pick up that piece and put it down again, although he had no objection until he learned that I'd tricked him."

I think "touch-move" is perfectly valid to enforce, but you waive your right to do so once you move after that. If someone touches a piece in chess, then moves another piece, you don't get to go all the way until you're mated and then say there was an error you should have won on.

And if you touch an illegal to move piece, I would say there the penalty would probably be revealing the bomb (or that it is immobile), not forfeiture of the game.

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by boringg on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:37PM (#32058427)
Hmm that you picked up the piece might have been an infraction. I constantly touch the bomb pieces but I don't lift them off the ground which implies that they can move.

Tough call - glad that you are still carrying this from your childhood though. I would wager that you won but through borderline cheating. Still not sure TBH

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by Swenrekcah on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:33PM (#32058369)
You won. Deception is obviously a critical part of all warfare.
Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by yborg on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:12PM (#32058832)
By that argument, the opponent rightfully won, because negotiation is also a critical part of warfare. He got his opponent to give away a tactical battlefield victory on the basis of mutually agreed ground rules.

Of course, dissatisfaction with such outcomes has often resulted in further wars.

Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by milesskorpen on Monday July 11, 2022 @12:41PM (#32058465)
If you're playing seriously, I think if you touch a piece you need to move it.
Re:Mastering the Game of Stratego with Model-Free Multiagent... by Imnimo on Monday July 11, 2022 @01:10PM (#32058808)
Wow! I did exactly the same thing as a kid. I though I was sooooo clever.