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Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by strken on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @02:57AM (#31997660)
If you included "the trolley actually exists in a realistic world and is part of a public transport network" then sure, I won't decommission it, but trolley problems are weird zero-context questions about trade-offs and I assume they fully describe the consequences of choosing each leg when answering.

It doesn't help that actual trolleys are called trams where I live, so I think of trolleys as philosophical constructs that don't have a real existence.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by jeremyjh on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @09:58AM (#32000984)
They aren't zero-context; all the value that you attach to a human life is context. If you don't grant anything else, you are just choosing one cartoon line-drawing over another. Certainly you are free to look at it this way, but it isn't really a useful point of view in a discussion about the hypothetical consequences.
Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by colechristensen on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:24PM (#32004051)
But they're not... real. What someone says they might do in a trolley problem situation vs what a person would actually do I would assume basically have nothing to do with each other.

Actively making a real life or death decision is quite a lot different than reasoning though a game.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by kukx on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @01:33PM (#32004163)
Certainly the simulation and the action in the real life has some connection. It just a matter how strong the connection is. I guess no one will test it though, at least that is what I hope.
Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by maest on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:47AM (#31998744)
But it's problematic to assume these problems are in a 0-context vacuum because that would mean your actions don't actually have consequences. If the world ends immediately at the end of the experiment, then your choices in the experiment don't have any meaning, imo.
Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by akvadrako on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:20AM (#31998945)
That is an extreme consequentialist view. Something I can relate to, but not how most people consider moral issues.

If you are in a burning, sinking ship and all going to die for sure, it's still immoral to rape someone.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by Etherlord87 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @12:13PM (#32003052)
However if you're in a plane nose-diving vertically, shooting someone a second before the plane hits the ground (in a way that obviously is going to kill everyone), hardly has any moral relevancy. It's taking 1s of life from someone, probably comparable to smoking a cig near someone. More so, this is a low-quality second of life, with all the stress coming from the awareness of imminent death.

So the argument still stands, the difference in the consequences, when considered outside of any context, is simply not worth the mental effort to figure out if the lever should be pulled. The exercise is only interesting because it provokes to think about real life scenarios.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by Spivak on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:27PM (#32007656)
Right but if you ask someone whether that situation is murder I bet most people would say yes. And I bet they would apply the same logic to someone on death row or with a terminal illness.
Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by egeozcan on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:25AM (#31998986)
Well, there's always the heat death of the universe, rendering everything meaningless.
Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by HenriTEL on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:46AM (#32000028)
Even if it's in a realistic world no one said the trolley actually transported people and led to less CO2 emissions than other transports.

Edit: On the other side, if you really decide to not take more context, you just destroyed the only existing trolley of the universe.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by rootusrootus on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @09:54AM (#32000909)
> It doesn't help that actual trolleys are called trams where I live

Does anyone really still call them that? A trolley is not a tram, it's a trolley, and harkens back from last century. In the US, some people call them trams, most of us call them trains. Portland does have a special version they like to call a streetcar, though. Functionally a light rail train, but runs in normal lanes of traffic.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by toyg on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:18AM (#31998938)
> It doesn't help that actual trolleys are called trams where I live

Yeah, when I clicked on the link I was hoping that finally someone had solved the problem of never having a pound coin to unlock trolleys at the supermarket.

Re:Absurd Trolley Problems by fendy3002 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @08:18AM (#31999751)
And some people just want to watch the trolley crash.