It's been 11 years since the last ASOIAF novel. I think GRRM may have written himself into a corner and is unsure how to tie up all the threads and satisfactorily end the series.
I think you are spot on about ASOIAF, but I don't think this is the reason GoT ended badly. Books and TV Show started diverting much earlier, and the show had substantially fewer storylines, which is a good thing in this context I think. I also suspect that the ending we got is based on notes GRRM left. Daenerys turning evil is heavily foreshadowed, Bran ending up on the throne kinda makes sense, and so does Jamie not cashing in his redemption after all. WW not being the final arc mirrors LotR, and GRRM has repeatedly stated that he loved that way of storytelling. The first book is called Game of Thrones, the ending is about that as well.
The problem in my opinion was just terrible execution: It was all really rushed and with terrible dialogue, so none of the story elements were developed in detail, and felt artificial and wooden.
On Twitter late last year, I saw what was probably the single best idea that would have greatly improved the last few episodes, and could probably have been accomplished with a single scene (and maybe still could for a future "definitive edition").
The idea is that at some point prior to the last two episodes, Danerys receives word that Mereen has fallen, and that the slavers have retaken it. Her greatest achievement in "breaking the wheel" is now gone, and her designs to be the next Aegon are no longer nearly as assured.
Building on this idea, the scene could play out with her completely losing it and threatening to burn Mereen to the ground, her advisors only barely talking her out of flying across the Narrow Sea right then and there.
Mereen's destruction is averted, but the seed has been planted in the viewer's mind: Danerys has much less to lose now, and she's willing to rain fire on a populace with enough provocation. Now when the other shoe drops and she does this on King's Landing, the turn has enough narrative foundation to feel plausible and earned.
You say that the problem is the execution. I think it goes deeper. It's impossible to execute. GRRM knew this about many plot points and that's why he changed his mind about many things by the time he had to expand on those specific plot points.
> Bran ending up on the throne kinda makes sense
If he ever gets to the end, I'm certain he'll see that this doesn't make any sense.
Or at least he won't write the same bullshit the show gave us: "he deserves the throne because he has the best story". I still want to throw the TV at the wall when I think about that.
They also did a bunch of other annoying/bad things that deviated from the early seasons (bringing along a bunch of nameless characters on adventures to just to kill them, wardrobe and makeup went in a frankly absurd direction for no obvious reason, emphasis shifted to "wow" moments in episodes instead of paced out plot, just dropped a bunch of story lines that were interesting, etc).
To put this in context: All 9 books of The Expanse were written during this period along with a six season TV show based on the same material. The two writers were involved in both actively.
I've 100% given up on ever seeing how ASOIAF ends. Same with Rothfuss's Kingkiller, it's been 11 years and I stopped caring during the previous decade
David Gerrold is never going to finish the "War Against the Chtorr" series. The last book was 1993. We're about to hit 4 decades since the last book.
GRRM wrote himself into a corner he hasn't been able to disentangle.
And the showrunners didn't have the luxury of waiting 11 years between seasons.
I do think they could still have done a better job, but it's hard to say from the outside because we don't know the budget, time and story constraints they were working under.
By the time the final few seasons came around, almost all the actors had become famous on their own right, who were taking on a ton of other shows (and I doubt they were under contract for the entire run, especially since it was never expected to last as long as it did) and it must have been a massive challenge bringing them together to film the final few seasons.
A much simpler explanation is that GOT show creators/owners paid him off not to publish the newer books, until they consider the market life of the TV show exhausted.
Unless GRRM is struggling with mental health issues, it doesn't take 11 years to finish a book. Heck, it's his series anyway. If he has trouble wrapping up all his plotlines, he can always write an 8th book to extend the story.
Even if GRRM wrote at the fastest pace he had ever written, the books would still be way behind the show.
Here are the GoT Season release years by season: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019.
Basically, 1 season a year, with the final season taking 2 years.
Here are the ASOIAF book release dates: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2005, 2011
So it was 2 years at its best (the first 3 books), and then it increased to 5, and then 6. He had already been slowing up badly as he tied himself up in knots, that he has been trying, unsuccessfully, to untangle for some time.
There were a lot of things I disliked. The first thing was the marriage of Barney and Robin, which was built up over the last one to two seasons and then undone within 15 minutes (and without good reason!). Overall, the Barney plot of going from married to divorced back to successful playboy to failing playboy to suddenly caring father was really bad (also, he failed as a playboy, but he also had a 30 day perfect streak?). The next bad thing was the dissolution of the friend group. Of course, life happens, but seeing them just not having time anymore was sad and it makes the build-up of the friendship in the older seasons just seem pointless.
The worst thing, however, was bringing the mother in and then killing her off with basically no screen time. I mean, the whole series was about meeting her! The earlier seasons spend so much time just teasing points where they randomly met or saw each other! And then we get a scene meeting her and one of her dying and she's gone. And what really killed the series for me were the last 15 minutes. I was pretty sad seeing everything that was built up over 9 seasons killed within not even two episodes and then it ends with "just kidding, the whole point of this story was just to date Robin after all". Knowing this just ruins the whole point, especially since the last few seasons do their best to clearly exclude Robin as dating option, even going as far as to have her marry Barney.
-- End of spoilers --
I know they did it this way because the ending was pre-filmed around season 2 and I actually agree with some fans on that this ending is, when read as a summary, not that bad. It's just that they build up so much in these seasons and especially went in a completely different direction in the last one, just to make a 180 degree turn and end the series with a bad joke. That's what completely ruined it for me.
First half of S5 and all of S8 and S9 depict in detail why Robin and Barney are horrible together.
>The worst thing, however, was bringing the mother in and then killing her off with basically no screen time. I mean, the whole series was about meeting her!
Nope. The kids themselves tell their father otherwise. Ted tells the story of "how I met your mother" to his kids to justify to himself why he should move on with his life and again pursue a relationship with Robin; his kids tell him that they have no problem with this, and are happy that he is interested in "Aunt Robin", who has already been a substitute mother figure for them (see "Little Boys").
>And what really killed the series for me were the last 15 minutes. I was pretty sad seeing everything that was built up over 9 seasons killed within not even two episodes and then it ends with "just kidding, the whole point of this story was just to date Robin after all".
Rewatch the show. Not just "Little Boys"; every single episode, from the first one onward (which I saw the day it aired, in September 2005), contains clues that lead the patient and observant viewer toward the ending.
Apparently 19 year-old Redditors are not the only ones who believe in TV-style 'shipping "true love", which means that the girl the guy fate says is meant for him in S1E01—in this case, the Mother—must be still The One in S9E22; any variance must be punished. They haven't yet learned that in the real world heartbreak and heartache and sad things do happen, and sometimes it's possible for two lonely old friends to find love again later in life.
To put another way: Most people are lucky to meet the love of their life.
Ted is luckier. He meets two loves of his life.
For me, the ending seemed very scripted, very boilerplate, very forced, very unimaginative. It seemed like the writers were in the contract longer than they wanted too and they were just "phoning it in."
Also, of course, it's less fun watching the stuff now, knowing that it will slowly fade out into a bad ending.
I hated being right about that one.
But that last season killed all that dead. Hell, there might have a way to rescue it until the last couple of episodes.
It was truly remarkable to watch potentially billions of dollars of future value evaporate in real time.
Part of my change in heart comes from rewatching the series, it seems to me that they had this as the intended ending all along. I also think it serves as an interesting commentary on the notion of love and romantic attachments that Ted struggles with throughout the show.
But overall I am frustrated with the film industry's overall obsession with subverting expectations. Viewers want some sort of payoff, and withholding that can really burn people who've invested time into watching content (especially for long running TV shows). You can sometimes achieve payoff even while subverting expectations, but too often you end up with an incoherent mess.
That being said, I do think they could've made this work. If you read a summary, it doesn't sound that bad. The thing that really ruined it for me was the forced delivery within two episodes. It just felt like tearing down everything, with no consistent plot or delivery and then topping it off with a bad joke. If they scrapped the actual season 9 and instead made a season 9 and 10 leading there, it would've been totally fine. And they knew this was coming!
Also, on the subverting expectations part: This is totally fine. However, HIMYM is a comedy show. Playing it for a joke is fine, but that was more the "suprise, your mom has cancer!" type of subversion and definitely didn't fit the mood show.
Correct. Almost every single episode of the show from the first one in September 2005 in some way foreshadows the ending. It's, overall, the most coherent and consistent continuity in television history.
(For those who don't want to rewatch the show, I've heard that watching the first two episodes and the last two episodes together makes for a very satisfactory rom-com.)
The show started going "Hollywood" in season 5 and it was obviously declining in quality but people defended it and got what they deserved with season 8
Before the last season was done, he had a heart attack and passed away. People were saying for months after that how lucky he was.
My father passed the year before 9/11. I sometimes think he was lucky to have not had to deal with that (or the aftermath).