The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by de6u99er on Saturday July 02, 2022 @05:09PM (#31962448)

Those high salaries remind me of the stories of heavy smokers who didn't die of cancer or COPD. I think it's very unlikely to get those high salaries in Europe. Comparing them to salaries in Silicon Valley without context isn't really smart. I have always tried to see bay area salaries as as risk compensation.

E g. In Vienna/Austria a 2-3 bedroom apartment here is about 1-2k while in the bay area it's between 5-10k. If I lose my job I still have a social net that will soften my fall, while in SV you're on your own and can get evicted from one day to the other. We have a single payer healthcare system while in the US certain health issues can, despite being insured, lead to financial ruin.

That being said my salary was until now always a 5-figure salary. In my upcoming job I will for the first time in my career path get a 6-figure salary which excluding bonuses is 70% higher and including bonuses can be up to 89% higher than currently. It took me quite some while to get there, and I can assure others that jobs paying those amounts don't grow on trees. It requires both talent and charisma, and honestly also luck, to land such a job. Constantly switching jobs and chasing slightly higher salaries definitely isn't the way to go.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by de6u99er on Saturday July 02, 2022 @06:59PM (#31963272)

I forgot to mention. 5 weeks of PTO or like in my case, after having paid into the system enough years, 6 weeks of PTO. Plus 100% paid sick leave! And lastl but not least between 12 and 24 months (parents' choice) parental leave which can be consumed half-half by both parents.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by peyton on Saturday July 02, 2022 @07:24PM (#31963441)

> I have always tried to see bay area salaries as as risk compensation.

Nobody paying those salaries sees it as risk compensation, so I don’t see how that can be true. Also, can’t you move back, or is there some requirement you pay into your system?

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by raverbashing on Sunday July 03, 2022 @02:13AM (#31965514)

The trimodal distribution is certainly present in the USA as well

Not every developer there wants/can/will move to SF for a FAANG job (or to NY, Seattle, etc)

You won't get paid the top salaries if you're with MS in Miami, or with a "legacy company" in a less popular city, etc

Remote might change that of course

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by TulliusCicero on Sunday July 03, 2022 @04:25AM (#31966089)

> while in the bay area it's between 5-10k.

No it's not. That's extremely high even by bay area standards. I'm sure you can find some new luxury apartments that go for that, but that's definitely not the norm.

And note that the US is more than just the bay area.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by fnbr on Saturday July 02, 2022 @05:34PM (#31962662)

Wait, really? That’s incredible! €1-2k for a 2-3 bedroom apartment in Vienna? You would barely see that anywhere in Canada, let alone a major city.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by ficklepickle on Saturday July 02, 2022 @06:01PM (#31962856)

Canada has the lovely combo of low salaries and high rent

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by sonofaragorn on Saturday July 02, 2022 @09:12PM (#31964125)

And frigid winters. Why am I here again?

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by bcrosby95 on Saturday July 02, 2022 @11:11PM (#31964712)

The climate will be perfect in another 50 years.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by ido on Sunday July 03, 2022 @01:23AM (#31965319)

The climate in BC is already perfect IMO and has milder winters than central Europe.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by seabrookmx on Sunday July 03, 2022 @02:10AM (#31965494)

*Southern BC and Vancouver Island

It's a big province. Winter sure isn't warm north of Prince George.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by ido on Sunday July 03, 2022 @02:48AM (#31965646)

Fair enough, but the mild areas are where most people actually live.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by lnsru on Saturday July 02, 2022 @05:59PM (#31962843)

The same is valid for Munich. 2-3 bedrooms plus dining room is <2k here. However it’s not the best apartment in the city, rather okayish. Also it’s hard to hit 5k after taxes salary limit here.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by atq2119 on Sunday July 03, 2022 @03:02AM (#31965701)

It is absolutely possible to get more than 5k after taxes as base salary in Munich as a true senior software engineer. Lots of what TFA calls "tier 3" companies are in Munich.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by lnsru on Sunday July 03, 2022 @08:56AM (#31967354)

Could you please share some information regarding these companies? I know one - Apple. But 5k is not their base salary, it’s lower with ton of stocks on top.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by skuzye on Sunday July 03, 2022 @10:31AM (#31967955)

Google is hiring in Munich too. I couldn't find public salary information on salaries there though. I'd say it's competitive enough that I'd be willing to relocate from London there.

Disclaimer: I work for Google. Words my own.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by lnsru on Sunday July 03, 2022 @11:38AM (#31968504)

Thanks. According levels.fyi L5 might have this base salary. Funny thing is that none of these salaries are for the roles working with hardware. As electrical engineer I am sad about this situation.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by bogomipz on Saturday July 02, 2022 @10:38PM (#31964563)

Wow. Out of curiosity is Berlin the same price as or more expensive than Munich now?

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by ido on Sunday July 03, 2022 @01:10AM (#31965246)

Munich is the most expensive city in Germany, i believe Berlin is 3rd or 4th.

EDIT: according to this Berlin has the 4th highest rents in Germany https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1885/umfrage/... (€ per square meter, for 2-3BR - which Germans call "3-4 rooms" - you can for ease of calculation assume 100 mˆ2)

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by ipaddr on Saturday July 02, 2022 @10:26PM (#31964492)

You can find that in most cities. 2,700 Canadian can rent a house in Toronto if you leave the downtown area.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by de6u99er on Saturday July 02, 2022 @05:39PM (#31962707)

Yes:

https://www.immowelt.at/liste/wien/wohnungen/mieten?ami=100&...

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by jotm on Saturday July 02, 2022 @06:56PM (#31963249)

It's not that incredible considering availability, requirements, time from arrival to country to getting the keys, etc. But yeah, once you are renting it, it's pretty nice until you have to move.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by xenadu02 on Sunday July 03, 2022 @02:15AM (#31965520)

You can rent a 3/2 house with garage for 4k in San Francisco. My mortgage in SF is not even 10k!

The only people paying 5-10k for an apartment are doing it in a trendy area, posh building, or both. Personally I'd consider that a waste of money but to each their own.

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by nemexis on Sunday July 03, 2022 @03:53AM (#31965927)

is that euro or dollar?

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Re:The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlan... by aix1 on Sunday July 03, 2022 @06:41AM (#31966663)

For reference, €1 is currently worth US$1.04, i.e. they're basically at parity.

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